New member, new tuba, new problem!

[PhilGreen]

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Hi all. I attach some photos of my new Meinl Weston (Mr Tuba) 2040/5. It's in silver plate with 24k plated tubing slides and I think it's looks and more importantly plays absolutely fab. However I have one massive problem and would appreciate some advice - I can't hold it comfortably and see my dots at the same time. In 'comfort' position it's too upright and my left eye sees nothing but bell. In 'able to see the music' position I can't stop it slipping down my right leg. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong; my left arm is in a different place every 10 seconds trying to find somewhere comfortable too.
My previous instruments have all been 3+1 piston tuba (4 x 981s, a 982 and a Courtois 181) so this new instrument feels very different anyway but I'm sure there must be a solution. I've tried a chamois leather on my lap to stop it slipping but that helps for a minute or so, gets screwed up under the bottom bow and I'm playing chase the tuba again.
Any advise would be gratefully received.

Thanks,

Phil

http://www.holbornebrass.net/philgreen.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

[T. J. Ricer]

It is sort of the same solution as your leather, but rubberized drawer liner has been a great solution for me (and it's incredibly cheap).

--T. J.

[oldbandnerd]

A nice new shiny tuba that that you need to learn how to hold comfortably ........ that's not a bad problem to have at all ....


That's a nice looking bit of brass you have there ..BTW.

[scottw]

Welcome to tubenet, Phil!
What a gorgeous tuba! I wish you many happy hours playing it. Did you play test it before you bought it? If so, any ergonomic problems would have been apparent then. Now that you have it, I would strongly suggest a playing stand. I have tried the DEG, the K&M, and the Baltimore Brass stands and, hands down, the best is the Baltimore Brass one. With a stand, you have certainty about where the horn is every minute, no slipping or twisting on your lap, no cramped legs trying to remain steady. Plus, you have full adjustability for mouthpiece height. The extra trouble to carry around the stand along with a music stand is well worth the effort. When I last checked, the cost was below $100. from Baltimore Brass. I don't know what the cost conversion would be to your location [?Britain?], nor the shipping, but you will find it well worth it.
Best luck!

[PhilGreen]

Thanks Scott - I'm enjoying it a lot. I did the old 'try before you buy' thing and came to the conclusion that it was just different and I'd get used to it. After 33 years of playing a 3+1 (firstly euph then tuba) I expected it to take some getting used to. It's only now that I'm doing full rehearsals and gigs with the instrument and I'm still not feeling in control that the ergonomics are causing a concern rather than a transient inconvenience.
TJ - I'll carry on with the leather for the time being and see if I can spot the drawer liners you recommend.

[tubeast]

How about resting it in your lap rather than one thigh alone ?
You´d have two points to stabilize the horn.
But then again, the horn might not be tall enough to do so without "slouching" down to reach the MP...

[bort]

Gorgeous tuba!

Ditto the shelf liner, but it might leave marks on the bottom bow (not that it really ever matters, but again, gorgeous tuba!). Otherwise you could get a playing stand and try that route. Being brand spankin' new and polished, I bet it's especially smooth and slippery. With time and use, it'll wear (a good thing) and be more comfortable.

One question if you don't mind though -- do you use the tuning slides much? I've always been curious about gold-plated accents on contact points. Seems like silver wears off quickly enough as it is... but, if you don't have to use the slides much, a moot point!

[PhilGreen]

Thanks Hans and Bort for the comments and suggestions.
Regarding placing the tuba on my lap - that would be the preferred position to be honest but it means that the tuba is quite vertical and stops me seeing the music (with my left eye at least) which isn't the best scenario To use both eyes I need to play at about 35 degrees off vertical which buts the bottom bow on my right thigh in order to get to the mouthpiece.
I might try a stand - Mark Carter (Mr Tuba) suggested one when I contacted him after a month of back ache and frustration.

Still interested to hear where others players of this instrument, if there are any on here, put their left hand.....

Bort, re pulling slides: I've not had too luckily enough. I spent a good while with Mark and his oscilloscope in South Wales and got the instrument pretty much in tune (a few alternative fingerings but nothing awful) from high Eb down to low Bb. After that I'd been used to compensating instruments so hadn't played notes on 'wrong' fingerings or pulled slides before so I'm learning a new set of fingerings, using a flattened tone on the 5th valve as much as possible and so far the only note I can't get is bottom E natural. I guess pulling a slide would fix that but as my left hand doesn't know where it wants to be I haven't really progressed that far yet.
I would add that even with 5/1/3/4 down to hit a bottom F it's so open blowing and easy to make a good noise on that in many ways I prefer the 'non-compensatingness' of this instrument.

[NDSPTuba]

I realize that tuba wise my advice could be apples to oranges, but this made the world of difference to me. I bought a tuba rest from Baltimore brass for my Kalison 2000 Pro when I was having the same problem. I couldn't hold it in one place for long, it would walk all over my lap, invariably finding positions that created horrible mouthpiece angles and placement. It was a massive struggle. After i got the the tuba rest, all is fixed. The tuba stays in one place, I keep great horn angle, mouthpiece placement, and playing posture. I play so much better and more consistently since I started using the rest.

[basspiper]

Hi, Phil!
I use a thick mouse pad with the mouse side down. It's stiff enough not to get bunched up and grippy enough with the rubber side up to keep the horn from sliding around. The fabric side lets the horn slide too much but stays put against clothing or most chair surfaces, even metal ones.

One friend uses a small throw-pillow on his knee. Another plays a Conn 20j on a stand that looks strong enough to hold up a car.

Best of luck,
Dave

[Homerun]

Ditto on the shelf liner advice. The multiple color options are nice for those of us that have to play in uniform too. If it shifts while you play a while, try cutting a piece long enough to wrap under your thigh to hold it in place. I had an Eb tuba I played on for a while that was so bell heavy it was hard to keep the shelf liner in place after an hour or so, especially in my whites (slick fabric). There are different types of the shelf liner, some is more "slip resistant" than others.

[Dan Schultz]

That leadpipe looks to wrap around the bell too far to be comfortable to hold and play... at least it might be for me. I've been known to adjust the leadpipe on my personal horns so it doesn't come so far around the bell.

I've seen others use a tuning bit to place the mouthpiece at a more comfortable distance and angle off the bell.

[gwwilk]

Tuba playing stand. BBC or K&M.

When I returned to the tuba after 30 years of deprivation and jumped into the world of rotary valve tubas I quickly learned that I had to use a playing stand, no matter the tuba, in order to maintain optimum posture with a correctly positioned instrument. I use the K&M at home and carry a BBC stand for rehearsals and gigs.

With a beautiful instrument like yours I would also recommend a K&M portable tuba stand: google 'K&M 14940B4 Tuba Stand (Standard)' to see the item. It keeps your instrument upright, prevents standing it on the bell, and protects it quite well from clumsy colleages. My avatar shows my Miraphone 191 (near) and RM Bayreuth (far) in their stands where I practice. They should be positioned upright in their stands, not tilted as shown.

[tclements]

I am CERTAIN there is a posture that will allow you to play your new baby (congrats, by the way) and still let you see your music. With many rotary tubas, the correct posture is as follows: feet right under knees, tuba on both legs, tuba tilted to your left, slightly. If this doesn't work, you might want to try a K&N tuba stand. I use one for my Willson 3050.

[Art Hovey]

Take it to a good repair shop and have the leadpipe altered, as Don Butterfield did. Some folks seem to think it was to allow the bell to vibrate more freely, but it was really to allow him to use his left eye.

Your personal comfort while playing the tuba is far more important than the beautiful shiny finish. The audience will never be able to see the scars left by the alteration even if is poorly done.

[bearphonium]

Tuba rest. Makes a world of difference. I have an adjusted lead pipe on my Yorkmaster, which does help me see around the bell. As far as left hand position...anywhere it is comfortable, unless you need it up top to pull slides.

[PhilGreen]

Thanks for the messages guys.
I'm going to try a stand just to see if it really helps. Problem I may have is that in the quintet there's a fair bit of movement involved (standing up and sitting down mainly) whilst playing so not sure if the stand will work in this scenario. I assume it's more for 'in one position' playing??
Have emailed Mark about the leadpipe move, it seems an obvious first move in getting the problem sorted. Will keep you informed how it all goes.

Phil.

[gwwilk]

Thanks for the messages guys.
I'm going to try a stand just to see if it really helps. Problem I may have is that in the quintet there's a fair bit of movement involved (standing up and sitting down mainly) whilst playing so not sure if the stand will work in this scenario. I assume it's more for 'in one position' playing??

Yes, the stands are for stationary playing. I avoid like the plague trying to play my RM anywhere but on the stand.

You might consider a harness under these circumstances. I have a Neotech harness that I use for standing gigs with the 191 since its attachment rings are rectangular and don't accomodate a Meinl-Weston harness. A good repair tech could I'm sure easily solve that problem if I needed to play standing up more often.

[tuba.bobby]

Phil - if you're ever at sovereign again in the near future and fancy borrowing a stand let me know.
Bob

[Casey Tucker]

Hi,
Ditto to the shelf liner. Honestly, it's the cheapest immediate option that will most likely solve your problem. I've never had a problem with it leaving a mark on either of my silver horns and you can cut any size you need. i cut a LONG piece, double it over and wrap it around my left leg. when you stand up, simply put your left hand under the liner and stand. The liner grips well enough to keep from slipping. try the liner first and if it doesn't work try the rest. Heck it's like $8 and if it doesn't work you can use it to line your shelves!

-CT