Review of Xuqiu Huasheng Travel/Trolly /Micro /Asian F Tuba

[bisontuba]

Don't assume that what appears the same model sold cheap on eBay is the same instrument as that from a reputable dealer - it may not.

And dealers shouldn't assume that they will continue getting the same product sent to them by their contact if the contact can get a similar appearing instrument that costs them less (which they can...). I know first hand that one dealer sends a representative to China when their shipments are ready to come to them. The rep inspects, plays, and packs each tuba in it's box. They then seal the box with identifying tape to prevent instruments being swapped out. This company was one of the first in the game and learned that the Chinese "business secrets" change like the wind...

Hi-
Yes, items can be not what you think you are getting- but this nothing new--whether Chinese, European, or U.S. items. There is a popular music store in the U.S. that imports different European tubas- I have known many folks who went to this store to play test & pick out a tuba and pay for it in full (and some smart ones even wrote down the serial #)!- only to have the store attempt to pull a 'fast one' and ship them a different tuba, while selling the 'cherry picked' instrument(s) to their favorite clients [ and no, don't bother asking me here or via email which store has done this}. This has happened many times from this store on European horns. For any product, Always buyer beware, and make sure you keep the box and if there are problems, have the opportunity to return the instrument 'as is' for a full refund. My 2 cents....
Mark

[Lingon]

...John, I wish I could fully answer you, but even to us selling Chinese instruments some of the links between companies is unknown and is very difficult to find out...

Thanks Jonathan. Therein lies the heavy responsibility to market the Chinese instruments on the dealers instead of a rigourous quality and delivery control at the factory. Also on the consumers that must get used to return stuff that is not up to what could be expected. Like when my colleague had to test about 30 bach bass trombones that were all dogs before he got one that was usable... That is what I am not totally comfortable with. For all of you on tubenet that sells these instruments I am confident about the seriousness but as said many times there are other people out there dealing with the goods. I am really satisfied with my Chinese instruments though.

It is absolutely great with your contacts in China and also the method to pesonally inspect and seal everything that should be shipped. But sadly enough even then there are always some thoughts about the seriousness from the origin, seals could be broken and replaced etc... It would benefit the Chinese makers to use the Japanese Kaizen style quality control and honesty which maybe necessary in the long run if consumers demand it. If I want a Yamaha I just order and wait for it to come to my door to start playing.
On the other hand with all of you here that sells the chinese instruments I think that if a container full of not so good instruments will arrive, then it will go back east again?

...Best guess is there are 1300 brass instrument manufacturers in China. Some are now very good (such as Huashen), while for others the quality is not so good...

Something like the situation in old europe then, not that many but a lot of them. But with 1300 manufacturers there could be a great market for instrument testing tourism in China. A new lucrative business idea then. Group travel with the Trans-Siberian Railway to a lot of factories for trying out brass instruments combined with cultural sightseeing in China?!

[Lingon]

Jonathan just one thing, I asked about how small the little tuba is. About the size of a Eb tenor horn or?

[MartyNeilan]

Al stopped by the shop with a few repairs for my guys to knock out. He was nice enough to bring with him a lacquered and silver plated example for us to check out. Fun toys. I myself would not have any real use for one but I could see them being usable as a really inexpensive substitute for a cimbasso. We were messing about with a 6/4 J.W. York BBb tuba project that Al wanted to check out and thought it would be fun to compare the two.



D.C. Oberloh
http://www.oberloh.com

Clone THAT horn!!!

[tubaforce]

Hi!
I wish we could clone DAN!
That York is one fine example of Dan's impeccable craftsmanship! I am already figuring out how I will pay for MINE!!!! If my Chinese friends had 1/10th of Dan's pride and ability, Miraphone would be in trouble! As to the Travel F, it blows stuffier than a Bass 'Bone, but Dan, Paul Avery (Dan's Awesome Apprentice) and I all agreed this was a FUN little axe! There's no way in H E double hockey sticks a kid could play this horn! The only "childlike" aspect is it's diminutive size! It occupies the same space as an Eb Alto Horn (Tenor for EU folks). Intonation is good, and the pedals are amazingly open!
Al

[Wyvern]

Jonathan just one thing, I asked about how small the little tuba is. About the size of a Eb tenor horn or?

Yes, about the size of tenor horn. I have not yet tried to see if would fit in tenor horn gig bag

[bisontuba]

....It would benefit the Chinese makers to use the Japanese Kaizen style quality control and honesty which maybe necessary in the long run if consumers demand it. If I want a Yamaha I just order and wait for it to come to my door to start playing.
On the other hand with all of you here that sells the chinese instruments I think that if a container full of not so good instruments will arrive, then it will go back east again?

HI-
FYI:
Just saw my first 'pro' Yamaha brass instrument stamped 'Made In China".....

...Best guess is there are 1300 brass instrument manufacturers in China. Some are now very good (such as Huashen), while for others the quality is not so good...

Something like the situation in old europe then, not that many but a lot of them. But with 1300 manufacturers there could be a great market for instrument testing tourism in China. A new lucrative business idea then. Group travel
with the Trans-Siberian Railway to a lot of factories for trying out brass instruments combined with cultural sightseeing in China?![/quote]

Wish I could go:
Next month is the huge Shanghai Music Show (China's version of the Frankfurt show--having looked at the list of exhibitors, it is huge!!)--would I love to be there!

Music & Sound fairs > Music China

International Exhibition for Musical Instruments and Accessories

11-Oct-11 to 14-Oct-11

Shanghai New International Expo Centre (SNIEC)
Shanghai, China
Fair facts Special events & exhibits
The latest news Promotional materials
Exhibiting at the fair Media Centre
Visiting the fair Travel Centre
Exhibitor list Contacts

BTW, here is the info for 2012 Frankfurt in Germany Music show:
Welcome to Musikmesse 2012

Musikmesse is the world’s biggest and most important fair for the musical-instrument sector. In 2012, it will be held from March 21 to 24 and give a comprehensive overview of all subject areas and products associated with music making.

mark

[bisontuba]

Hi-
For anyone in the area, Don Harry has arranged to get the orchestra's music hall, Kleinhans, available this Monday at 1PM to check out the Chinese tubas. I'll bring 3 JinBao's-the 186 CC silver 5v clone (#410), the modified 6v F (#600), the Bb 4v tenor tuba (#350) [Don will have his Alex 151 there too], and finally the XuQiu micro/travel 4v F tuba (#XCTA002) with the Voigt practice mute.

If anyone is in town, email me and I can give you directions to the hall for the 'Great Chinese Horn Fest'....LOL....

mark

[Lingon]

HI-
FYI:
Just saw my first 'pro' Yamaha brass instrument stamped 'Made In China".....

Everyone is outsourcing... I would not worry if they continue to learn the new makers their philosophy of Kaizen. There are also other examples, Shires, Rath and others... Btw, where is your last Sony made?

[chronolith]

Reagrding those little horns, since they don't sit in your lap or on a seat or stand in front of you, how comfortable are they to hold and play? Does holding them for long periods eventually hurt your wrists? Do you cradle them somewhat like a euphonium?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
I find the micro tuba easier to hold than the tenor tuba--and as far as weight, it weighs a LOT LESS than my cats--seriously, no problem at all--even with my bad shoulders.
mark

PS Regarding an earlier post re. where was my last Sony made--probably the same place as where all my Apple products are made.....

[Wyvern]

Reagrding those little horns, since they don't sit in your lap or on a seat or stand in front of you, how comfortable are they to hold and play? Does holding them for long periods eventually hurt your wrists? Do you cradle them somewhat like a euphonium?

I have played for 2 hour gigs with no problem at all. Weighing only 2.7kg, it can be held all day for sitting, or standing gigs without much effort.

I find when sitting it tends to rest on my stomach

[tubaforce]

Hi!
These tiny Tubas are very comfortable to hold, and the first valve slide is easily accessed. The one caveat so far is the case. It is sturdy, and not overly light, but one must take care when closing it, that the latches are secure, and carry the instrument with the valve bulge against your body (so it opens against you) like you would any small instrument in its case!
I am planning a trip to my local luggage repair shop seeking a strap or other addition for added security that can be fitted easily and look ok too. There are two keys included with the case, but some may find it a pain to lock and unlock the case everytime.
Al

[Mark]

There are two keys included with the case, but some may find it a pain to lock and unlock the case everytime.

Locking cases makes me nervous. It does not deter theft and you could lock the case, got to the gig, and find you have left the keys at home.

[The Big Ben]

Hi!
These tiny Tubas are very comfortable to hold, and the first valve slide is easily accessed. The one caveat so far is the case. It is sturdy, and not overly light, but one must take care when closing it, that the latches are secure, and carry the instrument with the valve bulge against your body (so it opens against you) like you would any small instrument in its case!
I am planning a trip to my local luggage repair shop seeking a strap or other addition for added security that can be fitted easily and look ok too. There are two keys included with the case, but some may find it a pain to lock and unlock the case everytime.
Al

Agreement on that! My first trumpet 45 years ago had a case that would pop open at very inopportune times. A pants belt fixed that but the horn had a few more dents in it by then...

[tubaforce]

Mark Jones is using a bungee cord!
But I hope to find a more "professional" solution! I think I'll hit the thrift stores tomorrow for a couple of woven cloth belts, Big Ben, as I am shipping the last two units tomorrow...
Al

[Lingon]

I find when sitting it tends to rest on my stomach

I must get one of these sooner or later

[Wyvern]

When blown hard as would be necessary for such an ensemble you describe the Bubbie tuba does start to sound more trombone like in tone, great if you want to use as substitute cimbasso, but not to provide the broader tuba tone to support ensemble.

I do not have experience with the tenor tuba in ensemble, but doubt if would provide much bigger sound than compensated euphonium, and you would likely have tuning issues playing in the tuba register without the compensating system.

I would suggest a small BBb tuba would better do the job - something like the Junior Bb made by Huashen which is not much larger than euphonium.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
For anyone in the area, Don Harry has arranged to get the orchestra's music hall, Kleinhans, available this Monday at 1PM to check out the Chinese tubas. I'll bring 3 JinBao's-the 186 CC silver 5v clone (#410), the modified 6v F (#600), the Bb 4v tenor tuba (#350) [Don will have his Alex 151 there too], and finally the XuQiu micro/travel 4v F tuba (#XCTA002) with the Voigt practice mute.

If anyone is in town, email me and I can give you directions to the hall for the 'Great Chinese Horn Fest'....LOL....

mark

Hi-
Well, we just finished with the Great Chinese tuba fest with Don, TJ Ricer, and Travis Hendra meeting up at the Hall of the Buffalo Philharmonic.

All of the above horns (silver 186 clone CC-model #410, 6v F with trigger-model 600, 4v tenor tuba Bb-model #350, and the 4v F micro travel tuba) were very, very well received. As I mentioned in a different post, the only negative was that we all felt the tenor tuba-model#350--needs to have the 2nd valve slide shortened. Outside of that, all LOVED the travel tuba and the 186 silver clone. Don had his one and only old 186 there on stage also, and the clone did hold its own to this legendary horn.

[UPDATE--see my news of the tenor tuba after work done on it on a 10-11-11 post under 'Review of JinBao Bb tenor tuba model #350!].

Everyone is in agreement regarding the horns--for the money, they are a tremendous deal.

A fun afternoon for everyone.

Regards-
mark

[Wyvern]

I have just received the first Eb Bubbie (plus some extra slides to add Eb option to existing orders). I have spent the whole evening playing it and having great fun practising the Eb bass part to Philip Wilby's Jazz (which I am playing in contest in just over 2 weeks with Championship band on the JinBao 700 EEb). I went over the Bubbie with tuner and for 'me' it pitched well in Eb with 1st slide out about 1/2", 2nd slide 1/4", 3rd slide 3/4" and 4th slide 2". I could not detect any difference to response playing in Eb, over F. It has certainly not impeded its low register - to my surprise I could get down to pedal G two octaves below the stave!

I tried playing some studies I had previously played on Bubbie pitched in F and had great difficulty with fingerings although I am fine on the JinBao EEb - strange how the brain works - like it could not believe the tuba could now be in Eb! Myself, I will probably only play in Eb for brass band treble clef music.

One unusual thing is the Eb slide has no water key, probably because they could not find anywhere suitable to fit, and anyway there are so many bends that there are multiple places for water to collect. So to empty it has to be pulled and the slide spun, but not too difficult on such small tuba and the slide pulls and replaces easily.

I will post pictures of the Eb slide tomorrow in day-light - it is very ingenious how so much extra piping has been fitted in such a small space - well done Huashen!

The Eb Bubbie is already proving it worth, allowing me to go on practising the test-piece later than I would of otherwise without annoying the neighbours