New Mouthpiece Advice Needed

[MajorChubbs]

I currently play on a Conn Hellenburg 7B (the small one) and would like to switch to a slightly larger mp. My primary playing is on BBb and CC tubas. What would be the next baby step up in size?

[clunkertruck]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Tuba-Sousap ... 1c1f123983" target="_blank

[TheHatTuba]

I think its the 120s

[TubaRay]

I think its the 120s

Yep!

[MajorChubbs]

Thank you all. I was able to try one out at a local music store. Where does the 120 fall in terms of size to rest of the BBb/CC mps? What I mean is it a mid-size mp or a small-size for tuba?

[DHMTuba]

According to the Tuba Mouthpiece Guide the 120s is 32.50mm cup diameter. Between a Bach 18 (32.10) and Bach 12 (32.75), going to the large side of middle if that makes any sense. Definitely not "small".
HTH

[MajorChubbs]

The 120 felt like a leap in size, not a baby step. Now I know why. I guess I will have to find a reliable mp comparison chart. Any thoughts?

[Donn]

The 120 felt like a leap in size, not a baby step. Now I know why. I guess I will have to find a reliable mp comparison chart. Any thoughts?

That's a tough one, because we're mostly dependent on manufacturers' measurements, and they evidently don't measure in the same place (not that there is necessarily any such thing as a potential standard place to measure, given the rounded shapes of cups and rims, but even so there seem to be noticeable discrepancies.)

[ghmerrill]

I have not found a completely comprehensive mouthpiece comparison chart. If you Google for it, you will find several and can kind of mix and match. (The Denis Wick one is one of the best -- but contains information only about DW mouthpieces and some vague comparisons to others. The Schilke one -- and I like Schilke mouthpieces -- is irritating because it contains almost no information beyond rim size and vague descriptions of the cup depth.) I've spent a lot of time doing that myself -- although in all honesty, there still isn't too much in terms of predictability you can get from comparing mouthpieces by looking at specs. You really need to try them. I've been really surprised at ones I thought would be great for me and turned out to be terrible, and vice versa. There are several places that will send you several different mouthpieces on trial either for a small "restocking" fee or gratis (you do have to pay shipping).

Keep in mind that when you talk about "mouthpiece size" there are several variables: diameter, rim width, rim contour, cup depth, cup shape ... not to mention stuff like backbore, etc. There is, for example, a significant difference between a Helleberg style (funnel-shaped) mouthpiece and a German (Geib?) bowl-shaped mouthpiece in terms of things like articulation, "slotting", and tone, etc. -- even if the two mouthpieces are the same "size" (although what "size" means when the shapes are dramatically different is a good question).

I've recently switched from Helleberg types (which I used for years) to Perantucci German styles for reasons of articulation and tone color. The rims are pretty much the same size (diameter and width), but the other stuff is quite different. So when you talk about a "step up in size" this really is meaningful only if the mouthpieces you are talking about are the same style (and even among so-called "Helleberg" types there will be some significant variation).

Moral: Ya gotta try them. Use the charts to figure out good candidates to try -- not one you'll buy and marry.

[clunkertruck]

Here's one with some comparisons-- Give ya a rough idea where to start--
Good luck !


http://www.allbrassradio.com/tubampccharts.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

Mr. Werden also has posted one--

http://www.dwerden.com/mouthpieces/tuba.cfm" target="_blank

[MajorChubbs]

Thanks again, members. It didn't take long to "feel" that the Con Hellenburg 120 was a bit to much of a increase in size. I have been down this road with my euphonium and found acceptable qualities (for me) in mouthpieces. I got to point that a couple mouthpieces (within the same list size) were necessary. IMHO The Wick SM3.5 allowed me more color/body and is well suited for section/blending play. IMHO The Alliance DC3 is a extreme "slotted"/projection mp and is useful for solo and chamber work. I have had little exposure to different tuba mps. The Conn 7b is the mp I started on in grade school and the plating has worn through on the rim and lip. I would rather spend a little extra money on a new mp, than I would have the 7b replated. Once I have narrowed in on a decent size range, I can focus more on styling. If the 120 is a bit too large and the 7b is a bit too small, then I figure that 32.00mm to 31.75mm should feel comfortable ( idk until a trial). Which style facilitates slotting? Is there a blended style like a coned-cup?

[ghmerrill]

If you want more of a "combo" cup, I think the Schilke 66 or the Wick 2 might work, but I'm not a big fan of either, so I can't say.

I had settled on the Schilke 66 for years and really liked it. Among the Hellebergs, it is by far my favorite (the Schilke Helleberg is a close second). Over the years, I would try other ones (including the Conn 120S, which is not bad for me but seems to require a lot more air, and the Kelleyberg, which is honestly even better in terms of the tone I get), but always came back to the 66. I really switched to the PTs because they provide more of the sort of sound I was looking for, and seemed to give me a bit better control in the contrabass range and without sucking the air out of my lungs. Given the rim size you like and what seems to be the rim contour, the 66 might be a very good candidate for you.

[Donn]

As luck would have it, the lady of the house straightened things up recently, and collected the tuba mouthpieces that turned up and artfully arranged them on the bookcase. So I can easily compare my Conn 7B with my Schilke 66, and indeed the latter is smaller.

That doesn't mean, though, that it wouldn't be a suitable mouthpiece for someone who's looking for something larger than the 7B. It's smaller across the inside rim, but its proportionally a somewhat deep mouthpiece, where the 7B is slightly shallow. Interior volume? Dunno, probably still smaller than the 7B. But for me, it's a decent contrabass mouthpiece, where the 7B is more edgy. So it just occurred to me that it depends on why you're looking for a bigger mouthpiece - maybe inside rim diameter isn't even the point.

Also have the Schilke Helleberg and Denis Wick 2, but I don't like them, I think not funnel shaped enough. I've heard good things about their Helleberg II, though - and of course the similar Laskey H series. Those might be good examples of the uselessness of chart dimensions - is a Laskey 28H really wider than a 120S? as it would appear in one of the charts posted above.

[MajorChubbs]

Very good point, Donn. As I found out with my Alliance DC3 and Wick 3.5 is the inside diameter is only a part of the "feel" for size. The DC3 lists 26.00mm and SM3.5 lists 26.40mm but I cannot feel much of a size difference (dc3 has a sharp/thinner lip and sm3.5 has a soft cut wide rim/cushion). I intend to test drive some of the Schilke mps that have been suggested on this thread. I rather like Schilke mps and they are reasonably priced.

[kprinz]

You might check out Doug Elliot's site. He has done some measurements of several mouthpieces and organizes them in comparison with his own cup/rim sizes, of which he also provides the measurements. If your interested, I'm sure he would also be able to put a mouthpiece together for you too