Kanstul 5/4 Grand BBb and CC Tubas

[GC]

Considering Kanstul's recent work and development, I bet these will be great sounding and playing horns. The one thing I don't like about them is the ring around the bell. I understand the reason for using them both mechanically and economically, but to me it makes the horns look cheap.

[bort]

Sorry, I still don't get it. Is the 2-piece-bell done just to eliminate this step? Could this be done still?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQIP53NE ... be&t=1m48s

[tclements]

I had a MW Bill Bell model with a removable bell. I though the ring assembly made the sound more SOLID compared to the 'one piece' bells I played.

[Bandmaster]

How tall is the tuba? Either i never realized that the 90 was so squat, or the new 5/4 is an absolute giant.

Yes, the 90 is squat... it would be considered a "compact" wrap horn.

I was curious about the 2 part bell too...aren't most bells made in 2 parts anyway, and then fused together?

This is really a 3 part bell. Look at the unfinished horn, there is a visable seam on the flair and the seam where the ring is located. Maybe Kanstul is waiting to get all the bugs worked out before they make a new mandral to make the one piece bell. I hope so... I don't like the ring either. I think I know why they have designed the bell stack to be removable, Zig told me once that they make their 5/4 marching GG contra with a removable bell because their silver plating tank isn't big enough to hold the horn in one piece.

[Tubawaves]

Kanstul 5/4 CC review

I visited the Kanstul factory early this week and play tested the new 5/4 CC tuba extensively. I found it easy to play, clear and even throughout registers, truly excellent intonation, and has a magnificent and beautiful York tuba sound. I played through all the typical excerpts, Charlier etudes, loud soft etc. Love it! The 5/4 has instantaneous response, and the "York sound" that is the goal for this uniquely American instrument.

I agree with my friend Steve Ferguson that it is different from the 4/4 CC - both tubas are very special, with similar characteristics. The original 4/4, 5/4, and 6/4 York instruments also shared similar characteristics.

While testing, I played technical exercises effortlessly, as if I had always played that tuba - very easy to play and similar to my original Yorks. When you "step on the gas" with this tuba, the sound just gets bigger and bigger....I can't wait to get it into the orchestra.

I should also note that this is not another York copy (though it has strong similarities to the 5/4 York CCs), nor is it an adaptation of Kanstul's marching horns. I spoke at length with Zig Kanstul, and learned that he personally spent a lot of time and effort himself "doing the math" designing this horn - really from scratch. Remember that Mr. Kanstul is in the original York designer lineage (Bill Johnson (York) - F.A. Reynolds - Zig Kanstul), and knows things about design and manufacturing that are unique to the American York sound. It is truly an American tuba.

In addition, Kanstul spent significant effort designing this tuba to be ergonomically pleasing. The 5/4 CC sits comfortably on the chair, and I could easily reach all of the tuning slides (not that I found much need for slide pulling).....very comfortable to play.

The ring on the bell did not bother me at all - but it is there now due to the current mandrel setup. If a few of you readers order tubas but don't want the ring....who knows... In the 80's, lots of folks were adding "tone rings" to their bells... I would advise not getting too hung up on the bell ring....it is not a hinderance, and may go away anyway...

I'm trying to attaching a link to photo of me playing the 5/4 CC...(not for my dashing looks)...but to show how it fits...this tuba is an incredible instrument, and is really comfortable to play. The tuba plays like gangbusters.

https://skydrive.live.com/redir.aspx?ci ... 05C778!134

Hope my thoughts are helpful.

Thanks,

Robert Carpenter
Orlando Philharmonic Orchestra

[Tom Coffey]

Great post and pictures.

[TYA]

Has a price been set on this tuba? It looks amazing and must sound even better then it looks.

[Steve Marcus]

Will the 5/4 Kanstuls be on display at Midwest Clinic, perhaps with Lee Stofer?

[kanstulbrass]

Will the 5/4 Kanstuls be on display at Midwest Clinic, perhaps with Lee Stofer?

Hi Steve,

The company does not have plans to display at the Midwest show this year. In time, Lee will have the Grand models in stock, but he'll most certainly have them on display at the Army Band show in January.

All the best,

[Mitch]

The company does not have plans to display at the Midwest show this year. In time, Lee will have the Grand models in stock, but he'll most certainly have them on display at the Army Band show in January.

What? C'mon, man!

That's it. I hereby swear before all parties present that should I win in excess of $35 million in the lottery someday (first $34.8 m is already committed), I'm opening a tuba store in Chicago. I've always been amazed that with this city's reputation as a mecca for brass players, there's no store at which top-level instruments can be found. We have to wait for MidWest if there's anything we want to try (and hope it's going to be there) or travel 5 to 12 or more hours to get somewhere to try out a few horns, especially now with WWBW closing. Granted, the market won't sustain high volume, but who says we'd have to be open 45 hours/week?

Confarnit.

[Ferguson]

Trouble is, to attend that show like that as a vendor costs 5 figures plus, and apparently there's no Chicago dealer who's interested in doing the billing, even if there are any sales from the show. Last year a few tubas sold because of Midwest, but according to Kanstul, it still wasn't worth it (he's a fairly frugal man). If a local dealer steps up, I bet they might reconsider in the future. I think the advertising and brand recognition from attending that show will pay for itself if done right, but I'm not the leader.

That being said, Stofer's is less than a 3 hour drive from downtown Chicago. For a purchase of a $10K instrument, that's certainly a short distance to travel.

And, if someone wants to fly to LA to try and buy a tuba not available there, I'll help with the airfare.

Best,

Ferguson

[Lee Stofer]

I had suggested some time ago that a 5/4 York-type CC should be built by Kanstul, to be marketed to professional players. I am delighted to see that this is becoming reality, and hope that the tuba community, particularly the North American professional playing community will support the efforts of this company. People have lamented on this board before that all of the great American tuba makers were essentially gone. Well, great American tubas are back, and probably better than ever. Your support will ensure that their efforts continue.

I would like to answer some concerns voiced about the designs, my opinion only. About a year ago, I rebuilt a Holton 345 6/4 tuba for a customer, replacing the damaged bell with a new Kanstul-York bell. I have always felt that having the valveset protrude so far to the front of the instrument, to where it resembles a pot-belly, cannot be ergonomically good or comfortable to play for any length of time. So, when re-assembling this Holton, I took quite a lot of time mapping everything out and after the bottom- and top bows, wrapped the next two branches to the back of the instrument instead of the front. The result was an instrument that was much more compact, that required 5 less braces, 4th slide-to-body braces that were much shorter, and the front of the instrument really resembles a York 6/4 now. Playing-wise, the instrument now is very dark and focused, not woofy, responds very easily, and plays like no Holton I've ever encountered, but like a York.

I said all that to say this - the wrap may look like it might cause some ergonomic concern, but you just have to experience it to see how well it really works.

My other comment would be about the bell ring. I have done extensive playing of many tubas, both with- and without a bell ring, one-piece and detachable bells, and I find that the bell ring if anything makes the tone production darker and more solid. One should never think of the thin bell ferrule as being cheap, because it would be cheaper to just braze the seam than to make extra parts. If you look at the interior of a Kanstul bell, it looks seamless there, just like on the old Olds and Reynolds upright bells. Martin and other fine US makers have employed bell rings, an there is just nothing wrong with them.

Again, you just have to play it to truly appreciate it.

[toobagrowl]

The result was an instrument that was much more compact, that required 5 less braces, 4th slide-to-body braces that were much shorter, and the front of the instrument really resembles a York 6/4 now. Playing-wise, the instrument now is very dark and focused, not woofy, responds very easily, and plays like no Holton I've ever encountered, but like a York.

Sounds more like you are describing an Alexander or rotary Meinl-Weston: very dark and focused.
When I think of old Yorks, I think of mellow and buoyant
IMO, the old Yorks and Holtons sound and play kinda similar, and if anything, the Holton will be slightly "darker" in tone.

But those new Kanstuls are pretty and look York-ish.

[Steve Marcus]

The Kanstul 5/4 Grand CC is, from the photos, no small instrument.

While acknowledging that this may be a substantial tuba, are there plans to build a 6/4 CC or BBb in addition to the Grand 5/4 tuba?

Perhaps the question should be rephrased since there is frequent discussion about the nebulous "x/4" designations (e.g. Rudolf Meinl). Are there plans to design and build a CC and/or BBb tuba larger than the new 5/4 Grand Kanstul tubas?

[joh_tuba]

Would love to see a picture of one of these next to a Cerveny 601. Proportions look similar to my eye.

If the Kanstul has the Cerveny intonation coupled with a more efficient response you might have a winner.

[happyroman]

The Kanstul 5/4 Grand CC is, from the photos, no small instrument.

While acknowledging that this may be a substantial tuba, are there plans to build a 6/4 CC or BBb in addition to the Grand 5/4 tuba?

Perhaps the question should be rephrased since there is frequent discussion about the nebulous "x/4" designations (e.g. Rudolf Meinl). Are there plans to design and build a CC and/or BBb tuba larger than the new 5/4 Grand Kanstul tubas?

It sounds to me like this tuba, like the Rudy 5/4, is intended to be the same size classification as other BATs that are called 6/4. The bore size through the valves is the same as the York (0.750) and is substantially larger than the 4/4 (.689" / .710" 4th / .734" Rotor Bore; 19" Bell). My guess is that the bell on the 5/4 will be proportionally larger than the 4/4 as well. Since many 6/4 BATs have bells that measure 20" or more, this tuba seems to be in the same size class.