Helicon help please!!?

[georgerarnold]

I have lots of questions. . . .

I have just bought a helicon on ebay. It was sold to me as an Amati helicon in Eb with 3 rotary valves. After various tests it would seem that it is almost in F but a little flat. Even with the tuning slide fully extended is does not get to Eb. Would it be possible to get a longer tuning slide or lead pipe to make it Eb (I really wanted Eb because I already play a bit of Eb trumpet and don't want to learn another set of finger positions)? The lead pipe looks to be the original. After communication with the seller he tells me that Amati never made F helicons with only 3 valves, is this true, and if so how can an instrument magically jump up almost a tone? He also suggested that maybe I'm using the wrong mouthpiece. I guess the mouthpiece can make some difference but not that much?

Secondly, on the first valve the cap is missing on the bottom. Is it the case that this would cause air to leak as I've noticed its harder to find the note when playing and using this valve. How much would a new valve cap cost?

Thirdly, What would be a good mouthpiece for this type of horn, a normal tuba mouthpiece somehow feels a little wide.

I live in Barcelona in spain so if anyone knows anyone around here that knows about these sorts of instruments and could possibly make me a longer tuning slide/take a look at the instrument I would be very grateful for any information.

Thanks.

[Dan Schultz]

If it's definitely not in the key of F... it's probably an Eb except it's in high pitch. A long tuning slide is usually the cure. If the slide needs to come out farther than it can... a little experimenting with a couple of short pieces of garden hose (and a tuner) will show you what length the slide has to be. If it ends up being too long to stay within the confines of the body perimeter... you may have to put a couple more crooks in the slide. Whatever length you come up with, be sure to make provisions for times when the horn may play flat or sharp due to ambient temperature.

[Donn]

After communication with the seller he tells me that Amati never made F helicons with only 3 valves, is this true

Ask Sasha Alisanovic. Does your helicon look anything like this?



Typically, the Eb helicons out of this Amati/Cerveny group are a different design, fatter and wrapped around instead of doubled back.

[georgerarnold]

It looks a lot like that, but not exactly the same. Are you trying to say that it is in F?

[Tom Coffey]

You might experiment with a couple of sousaphone tuning bits between the mouthpiece and the leadpipe. If it does need a bit more length at the tuning slide, that should not be a very expensive procedure for a repairman to make.

[Donn]

Secondly, on the first valve the cap is missing on the bottom. Is it the case that this would cause air to leak as I've noticed its harder to find the note when playing and using this valve. How much would a new valve cap cost?

I tried just now, removed the cap from my first rotor and, while I didn't check with a tuner, didn't hear any change in pitch or any effect on the valve. If you have a problem there (maybe your rotor is looser than mine) I expect it would affect the valve the same whether you press the key down or leave it up. You're always using the valve itself, the part that's unused when the key is up is the valve tubing, so if that sounds bad there could be a leak or obstruction in the tubing.

My guess is that your helicon plays flat because of one or more air leaks.

Thirdly, What would be a good mouthpiece for this type of horn, a normal tuba mouthpiece somehow feels a little wide.

Of course this depends on many details. You're right, an ideal mouthpiece is going to be on the smaller end of the scale, but it probably won't make a vast difference. Is there anything that looks like a good candidate that's easily available where you are?

[Donn]

It looks a lot like that, but not exactly the same. Are you trying to say that it is in F?

I'm not really in a position to tell you what key your tuba is in, as I haven't even seen it, but

• in the modern era (post WWII?) Amati/Cerveny's F and Eb helicons are distinctly different
• I personally don't buy the explanation that it's a high pitch Eb that's almost F

Another way to look at it is to make some measurements. I think an F tuba's main path, minus valve tubing, would be around 360 cm - that's probably a little off, but by the time you've had a chance to do the measurements, hopefully someone else will have the real number. If it sounds flatter than it measures, it's leaking for sure.

[Donn]

It looks a lot like that, but not exactly the same.

Key feature: see how at his left shoulder, the tuba body comes up from the front and then goes back around the valve section, still in front, and at his neck there's a metal strap connecting that front part with the bell in back? This is an F helicon.

The usual Eb helicon doesn't that metal strap, because the tuba body itself would go around in back of his neck, following the helicon circle around to the valve section. This makes the Eb helicon paradoxically smaller than the F.

[georgerarnold]

Hmm. I'm trying to figure out how to post a picture of it. When I say it looks a lot like that helicon, it's the same form (doubled back) but there are a few minor differences. However it also looks a lot like this one (which they say is Eb) except with 3 valves:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Schones-groses-H ... 597wt_1350" target="_blank" target="_blank

I have a friend who knows about Eb helicons coming to look at it in a month or so but I'm really keen to start getting to grips with it and I really don't want to learn a new set of fingerings as I'm confused enough as it is. Hopefully I'll figure out how to post photos soon.

Thanks for your help.

[georgerarnold]

It seems to be about 360cms a little (roughly, maybe slightly more).

[Donn]

\When I say it looks a lot like that helicon, it's the same form (doubled back) but there are a few minor differences. However it also looks a lot like this one (which they say is Eb) except with 3 valves:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Schones-groses-H ... 597wt_1350

I didn't spend a lot of time puzzling over it, but I think they're wrong, it's F. Lignatone is an Amati stencil, by the way. My Eb helicon happens to bear that name (and looks completely different.)