ASCAP back on the road again...

scottw · Post by **scottw** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:11 pm

You do walk a dangerous path, don't you?

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:25 pm

I think I'll print the second article out and give it to my wife.....

ken "yeah and i'd be sleeping on the sofa..." k

So bloke is this how mrs. bloke treats you?
k-

Captain Sousie · Post by **Captain Sousie** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:30 pm

Yeah, my wife saw it while I was reading it and nearly banned me from tubenet. Thanks a lot.

Sousie

TonyZ · Post by **TonyZ** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 9:33 pm

For those of you that read and disseminate the second article to you better halves, I build FINE doghouses......

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 10:48 pm

No comment on the second article.

Does the first mean that the ASCAP cops will be on the road confiscating and burning fake books?

Should be interesting...

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:36 pm

tuba4sissies wrote:That link is not working. Can someone explain or get it working?

Well look there!!!.... Bloke caused the server to break down! Just look at all the trouble you cause! Guys in the doghouse, servers broke, ... just what'll it be next?

Captain Sousie · Post by **Captain Sousie** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:01 am

tuba4sissies wrote:That link is not working. Can someone explain or get it working?

Works fine for me. Do you have Acrobat Reader enabled? That could be the problem. Also check your firewall settings, they might block download apps.

Good luck,
Sousie

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:13 am

Now I'm confused. Did the groups perform off of xeroxed music? Or was it broadcast? The article suggests that royalties are expected for ANY public performance of ANY copywritten piece. Is this right???

(33 years in da biz, and still learning)

Mike Finn · Post by **Mike Finn** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:42 am

When a bunch of middle aged guys play Skynnyrd songs at the local biker bar, said establishment must pay ASCAP (and BMI?) a fee for the use of that, and any copyrighted material. The musicians may perform, royalty-free, any work that has been recorded and publicly released. It is the responsibility of the venue (who presumably makes more money because middle-aged guys are playing Skynnyrd songs there) to pay the fees. Likewise if they have a souped up stereo system for more than just background music, and even if they have a DJ or Karaoke.
That's how the composer, "the ultimate small business owner" makes his scratch. It does not matter if the musician is performing from sheet music or by ear. One of the local bars in Portsmouth was closed recently, I believe they were having trouble with ASCAP. (At least that's what I could discern from the drunken owner's diatribe at the end of the night when he explained why he wasn't running print advertisements anymore nor putting band names on the marquis.)
As to Bloke's other linked article, my wife got a big kick out of it. (and so did I

)
MF

neil · Post by **neil** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:29 am

bloke wrote:
Now I'm confused. Did the groups perform off of xeroxed music? Or was it broadcast? The article suggests that royalties are expected for ANY public performance of ANY copywritten piece. Is this right???

I may be wrong, but I think a biz-owner can get into trouble with ASCAP for meerly playing the radio in a public part of the establishment.

Absolutely. ANY venue that has music performed or broadcast must have a license with the performing rights organization to which the songs have been registered (ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC in the USA). All public performances of the songs, whether live or prerecorded, are protected. The money (in the form of performance royalties) goes to the songwriters/composers, and not to the recording artists.

Ames0325 · Post by **Ames0325** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:31 pm

That link is not working. Can someone explain or get it working?

what browser are you using? I couldn't get Mozilla to open it but it worked just fine on IE.

Amy

Stefan Kac · Post by **Stefan Kac** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:15 am

Is it true that the establishment essentially pays a flat rate in exchange for unlimited use of material? I read their website a while back and I couldn't quite figure this part out.n

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:19 am

Huh. I thought that if the music was played not for profit (i.e., no $$ was charged in any way for the performance) that there was not a copyright problem. That is speaking as a composer, too; I know, for example, that one of my pieces was performed at the IWBC a year and a half ago (I have a recording they sent me) ... and there were not royalties paid. Am I due? Or is it only "business establishments" ?
Free Sunday afternoon concerts?

MA

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 11:48 am

MaryAnn wrote:Huh. I thought that if the music was played not for profit (i.e., no $$ was charged in any way for the performance) that there was not a copyright problem. That is speaking as a composer, too; I know, for example, that one of my pieces was performed at the IWBC a year and a half ago (I have a recording they sent me) ... and there were not royalties paid. Am I due? Or is it only "business establishments" ?
Free Sunday afternoon concerts?

MA

Mary Ann, this ASCAP brochure should answer most of your questions:

http://www.ascap.com/licensing/educational.pdf

From the BMI site, it seems that BMI may take a more lenient tack for their affiliates:.

http://www.bmi.com/licensing/broadcaster/public.asp

neil · Post by **neil** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:01 pm

It really depends on the type of license that each establishment gets. Most restaurants/bars/etc. can get a blanket license that will cover most use.

MaryAnn, I'm not sure about your case. When we talk about performances, we talk about tens of thousands of plays on radio/live venues/TV/etc, which can add up to a lot of scratch. The thing about live performances (whether a free concert or not), is that the venue doesn't usually report which pieces/songs were performed. The money that was paid by the venue, like all other establishments, goes in sort of a "black box" that is divvied up based on your other royalties that were paid in a year.

So I imagine that unless that specific performance was reported to your PRO, you won't likely see any performance royalties. I'm not entirely sure what the rule is in the classical realm, but I hope that helps.

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:04 pm

neil wrote: Most restaurants/bars/etc. can get a blanket license that will cover most use.

Just curious: ballpark figure for what yer average whole-in-wall establishment would pay ASCAP/BMI annually to have a group playing?

Absoluteley NO strings attached to any estimates you might provide.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:23 pm

neil wrote:MaryAnn, I'm not sure about your case.

In particular, did she register the work with ASCAP/BMI? If not, then performing and mechanical reproduction rights still attach to the work, only it's up to MA to police the rights.

The difference is that ASCAP and BMI have their own standard licensing terms and if you register a work with them, you agree to be bound by them.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:41 pm

UncleBeer wrote:
neil wrote: Most restaurants/bars/etc. can get a blanket license that will cover most use.
Just curious: ballpark figure for what yer average whole-in-wall establishment would pay ASCAP/BMI annually to have a group playing?

Absoluteley NO strings attached to any estimates you might provide.

I know of a German social club that pays over $3,000 a year just to play the televisions and for the house 'polka band' to provide music every other Friday night.