How to get a louder sound from a high school tuba section?

[rebelstrike]

Hey,
I'm the tuba squad leader at my high school. I just started playing tuba last year and I play bassoon during concert season. My section of 8 sounds like one or two tuba players on the field and in the stands. Basically me and my section leader are the only ones you can hear. We are going to put 2 alternates from other sections and have them march tuba for visual reasons within the next week. I was wondering how can I get the other 4 players to play louder so we can balance with our band that is marching over 120 people? We play on Conn 20ks and everyone except one has a Conn Helleberg. Any help is great! Thank you!

[USStuba04]

I am going thru this same problem at sow schools I teach, sent u an email.

[Mark]

It may sound counter intuitive, but you might want to back off a little and try to play more in tune with each other. This could very well make the section sound louder.

[Rick Denney]

Bring in a professional tuba player to conduct a clinic with the section, emphasizing tone production, breathing, and a good sound.

Trying to play too loudly causes the tone to spread and lose its pitch center and tone color. It will not carry as well, or penetrate ambient noise as well. And one guy overblowing with bad tone and a little out of tune can kill the sound of the whole section.

If 8 guys making a good tone on 20K's can't be heard, then band director needs to tell the rest of the band to play within themselves, too.

Rick "who absolutely hates a loud, bad sound" Denney

[rebelstrike]

That's the thing, me and my section leader do have a good sound. Everyone else has a bad tone even though they play so soft (they don't open their mouth). My directors always tell us they'd rather have a soft sound then horrible tone. I'm with a band class that has 5 of the tubas in it and when I don't play, I hear every other section louder than the other 4 tubas (2nd band class). I have only been playing for only a year now and I don't take private lessons, so I don't know all the different tricks to play loud, I've tried breathing gym but they all have so different schedules that I cant have full section sectionals. Thanks.

[Lectron]

Air, get them to open their jaw/teeth and get them all to play in tune.
7(8) similar tubas played in tune should sound nothing less than huge

All the 'buzzing' has taught many players that they can actually produce good
sound with their teeth and lips (center) touching....

[sloan]

You've been given the same answer twice. Here's #3:

playing LOUD should be about #999 on you list of things to work on. Anyone can play LOUD - the trick is to play in tune with a good tone.

If the tubas are playing in tune with a good tone and can't be heard over the screeching of the other sections in the band, that's not a problem that the tuba section can fix. It's above your pay grade. All attempts to play LOUD to be heard will fail miserably (one way, or the other).

And finally - stop trying to be a "hero". If there are 8 in the section, and the audience can pick out YOUR sound from the section, then YOU are playing incorrectly. Now THAT is a problem that YOU can fix.

[MikeMason]

forget all of the above.I was at a marching band contest yesterday where the one sousa for a 100 piece band had a wireless mike in the bell run to a big bass amp on the sideline.Sounded pretty good.a lot cheaper than 5 or 6 extra sousaphones.

[TheHatTuba]

It may sound counter intuitive, but you might want to back off a little and try to play more in tune with each other. This could very well make the section sound louder.

+10000. Trying to play louder AS A GROUP with brute force is an uphill battle. Playing in tune together yields a much better result (DCI is the proof)

[GC]

It's sad that I've seen so many marching sousaphones where the valve slides are all pushed in. Too many younger players think that the main tuning slide is all that's needed. It helps to take time with a tuner to pull slides so that the section's intonation can be made reasonably consistent; a section playing in tune sounds much fuller than one where the individuals' sounds are fighting each other.

[rebelstrike]

Our band directors always say not to breathe in phrases, does that rule apply to tubas? I know not to breathe on bar lines and stuff but should I say like "A, and B take a eighth rest length breath on the 6th beat, C and D on the and of 6, E and F on 7, G and H on the and of 7" or something like that?

[Rick Denney]

Our band directors always say not to breathe in phrases, does that rule apply to tubas? I know not to breathe on bar lines and stuff but should I say like "A, and B take a eighth rest length breath on the 6th beat, C and D on the and of 6, E and F on 7, G and H on the and of 7" or something like that?

The sections in which I've played have either worked out specific stagger-breathing strategies, or we adopt an informal approach where Player 2 breathes after I breathe, and then 3 breathes after 2 and so on. Obnviously, I have to take that first breath before I need it or I'll kill Player 4

But I think you misheard your director. I always breathe in phrases. It's just that phrases are not always on the bar line--the last note of a measure often leads to the first note of the next measure, and there you don't want a gap. For a sustained note where the tuba section is providing a long drone, then stagger-breathing as described above is the key.

I play a lot of orchestral transcriptions, and many of them treat the tuba like a string bass--50 measures without a rest. I'm old and I need time to draw in a breath. I might ask other players in the section to skip the first measure of a lick and come in the second, so that when I run out of air they don't. And so on.

Rick "the important part is what's out front" Denney

[luke_hollis]

At the high school level, the best thing you can do is mouthpiece buzzing keeping a hand in front of the shank to make sure you are moving a lot of air. Buzz lower register stuff to get the feeling and the "ring" of the mouthpiece right. You can try it out. by first playing a few notes on your horn essentially cold. Then spend a good 5 minutes mouthpiece buzzing low stuff (C below staff down to F) maybe using a Rochut book 1 etude. Then pop the mouthpiece back in the horn and see how you guys sound in quality and volume.

[Lectron]

With close to none backpressure that MP buzzing will only teach'em
to continue blowing with closed jaw/lips.

A good exercise, yes, but they need to open up their mouth and quit sucking their Tuba

Let'em work on the instrument to produce a close to sinusoidal tone
and let that tone get loader when they master that

[bort]

[luke_hollis]

With close to none backpressure that MP buzzing will only teach'em
to continue blowing with closed jaw/lips.

A good exercise, yes, but they need to open up their mouth and quit sucking their Tuba

Let'em work on the instrument to produce a close to sinusoidal tone
and let that tone get loader when they master that

Not really sure what this post means because I have no idea what a sinusoidal tone is (sounds painful). But if you can buzz a low G with a closed jaw, I would be surprised. Most high school players can't figure out how to buzz a low G because of the lack of airflow. The whole point of buzzing low if figuring out the volume of air needed to get a a buzz going down low. Once you buzz that low G even with no resistance, you have the right air volume and are buzzing healthy. Air and a healthy ringing buzz are key my view.

[Rick Denney]

Let'em work on the instrument to produce a close to sinusoidal tone
and let that tone get loader when they master that

I disagree with the science of the waveform. You are saying you want fundamental and nothin but. But in my analysis of good tuba tone, a pure sine wave is not at all want we want, and it is not at all what will project and carry through high ambient noise.

We want a lively and energetic colorful sound. That sound has a rich mix of overtones, and those overtones are what makes it sound characteristically like a tuba, and also what gives it presence at the back of the hall. It is not necessarily even the prettiest sound up close. When I'm really moving air efficiently and achieving what is obviously to my ears as real resonance, the sound builds a tall stack of well-tuned overtones that jumps out of the instrument. That's what we need. We pinch off those overtones by closing our teeth, allowing our embouchure to go flabby, or buzzing a different frequency than the resonance of the instrument.

If you have a waveform generator, listen to a 60-Hz sine wave (2 Hz sharper than a low Bb). Play it loud. Is that really how you want to sound?

Rick "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" Denney

[luke_hollis]

Does everyone remember that we are dealing with high schoolers? Simple may be best to get them going. Then bring out the flux capacitor when things are more advanced...

[chronolith]

I humbly suggest an Oscillation Overthruster

[Lectron]

I disagree with the science of the waveform. You are saying you want fundamental and nothin but. But in my analysis of good tuba tone, a pure sine wave is not at all want we want, and it is not at all what will project and carry through high ambient noise

Rick "Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" Denney

Nope I don't, but I assume that their fundamental could benefit being more present in their specter.
It will carry much more than their overtones, but fundamental only is impossible and impossible to intonate

lively and energetic colorful sound? Solo maybe, in a band?..Not in my opinion..There will be a lot of others workin' that register
Wanna do something big in the flugelhorn register, pick up a flugelhorn.........Or a travel tuba