Why are composers considered musicians?

[chronolith]

Are you correlating 4'33" with the prize in a box of cat litter?

As with all things in "art" you must decide for yourself. Besides, I would not dare derail this thread!

[Mark]

As with all things in "art" you must decide for yourself. Besides, I would not dare derail this thread!

With the exception of tuba playing, I have a simple definition of art (e.g. painting, sculpture). If I can do it, it's not art.

(Addendum: I've been to the Rothko Chapel. I can do that. What I can't do is convince someone to pay me a large some of money for that. You have to admire Rothko. How much did Cage make from 4'33"? I might have to admire him too.)

[kprinz]

I spent some time studying composition with Martin Mailman at University of North Texas. I was fortunate enough to hear a masterclass where he went through an had people name the different components in music...the punch line: after everything was boiled down to its simplest terms and all of the musical components were put into their proper categories, a definition of music would emerge.

Sound (Silence) in Time with Intent.

Of these three components within the definition, I believe the latter is truly the pin that holds the definition together. I particularly like this definition because it is simple, open to diverse types of music without biase to point of origin, time period, etc, and pretty all-encompassing while still being somewhat selective.

[Anterux]

The listener*, with it's creative mind**, has a word*** to say here.

What one considers music may not be noticed as such by other.

I think only the listener* can judge that. So, if the judgement can vary, music may not be universal.

___________________
*the listener can be the composer and the executant at the same time.
**or not. or anything in the middle. or something else...
***may be the most important one, no?


EDIT: So, could I make something not intended to be music, but some listener hears it as music?

[Mark]

As just one blaring example of composers not being musicians, I would point to Mahler.

Gustav or Alma? If I were to whack an anvil with a hammer, would that be music? What if I whacked it three times? Or two times. No, three times. Well, two times. No, three..

[kprinz]

In nature you can find rhythm, harmony, melody, etc...however, I don't believe there is any artistic intent.

Is aleatory music...yes if it is meant to portray an artistic concept or intent event if the product of the composition changes from performance to performance there is artistic intent.