Dear 21st Century young eastern European composer...

[tbn.al]

Read the right side bar.

With the bugler shortage in mind, Congress passed a law that took effect in January 2000 and allows a recorded version of Taps using audio equipment if a live horn player is not available.

There you go. Some of us should maybe volunteer.

[BAtlas]

Maybe he just forgot to write, "sneak breath when needed."

I'm currently doing an arrangement of music from Close Encounters where I have to hold a low D and crescendo for long periods of time, thankfully the arranger decided to write "sneak breath when needed."

Also...speaking of modern works



I certainly hope he got what he wanted

[Dutchtown Sousa]

Maybe he just forgot to write, "sneak breath when needed."

I'm currently doing an arrangement of music from Close Encounters where I have to hold a low D and crescendo for long periods of time, thankfully the arranger decided to write "sneak breath when needed."

Also...speaking of modern works



I certainly hope he got what he wanted

Maybe music notation software should play the note only as loud as the typical player can that way when he or she hears a band play his or her music, he or she is not surprised by the fact the tuba on the long pedal tones is getting buried by the rest of the band. My band director always emphasizes phrasing, like playing all 4 measures without taking a breath or decreasing in volume. That doesn't exactly work when you are playing FF and marching in a way that restricts your lungs. Some people just don't understand that unfortunately.

[Carroll]

Read the right side bar.

With the bugler shortage in mind, Congress passed a law that took effect in January 2000 and allows a recorded version of Taps using audio equipment if a live horn player is not available.

There you go. Some of us should maybe volunteer.

Some of us do. I have played about twenty funerals (on trumpet...not bugle). Several of my H.S. alums are on our local list, as well.

http://www.buglesacrossamerica.org/" target="_blank

[Bob Kolada]

Also...speaking of modern works

I certainly hope he got what he wanted

Isn't this a TEXTBOOK example of why all you guys play C tuba?

FYI - I've NEVER heard taps done via recording...such a disgrace.

http://www.ceremonialbugle.com

That is disgusting. If you serves in the military you deserve more than a recording. I know if they had played a prerecorded one at my grandfather's funeral someone would have raised hell, if it wasn't me.

Would it be better to not have taps at all?

My grandfather, a decorated WWII veteran who was at Normandy, passed about a month before I went to Army basic training (but had actually been in the Army reserves for 6-7 months at that point due to the oddities of that component). They had an electronic bugle at his funeral; I don't think anyone but me noticed what it was. I hadn't played trumpet in almost a decade and wouldn't have dreamed of doing it. I was too busy crying over his casket anyways. The "buglers" (2 soldiers, only one played) were extremely professional during it. Full dress blues, stood quietly by the side, "played" in a professional and respectful manner, and I believe they came up to my grandfather's children (my mother, uncle, and aunt) and thanked them after.
To the trumpet players in my band, the military funerals are some of the most important and sacred things they do. But what if a trumpet player cannot be found in time? That electronic bugle may seem disrespectful but it is a VALUABLE asset.

[Dutchtown Sousa]

To the trumpet players in my band, the military funerals are some of the most important and sacred things they do. But what if a trumpet player cannot be found in time? That electronic bugle may seem disrespectful but it is a VALUABLE asset.

Alright I can agree with that but is there any reason why it must be played on a bugle/trumpet? I think it would have just as much a moving experience for me if someone had to play it on a baritone or even a tuba. I think just having the human touch itself is better than having a prerecorded version. Now that still does pose the problem of what you do when there is nobody that could play it on any instrument. I do agree it is better to have it played prerecorded than not at all.

[mdc2d]

Very interesting....

Recently it seems every concert cycle we have a piece(s) with parts like everyone has mentioned above... I had been wondering if it was only evolving in the wind band world, but obviously not. I have spoken with a few composers and expressed my frustration with this... most listen, but not sure if sinks in.

Two works most recently was Corigliano's Circus Maxiumus where you are doing some OBSURD things on pedal Db's, not to mention some fairly exposed licks with low reeds (i.e. contrabassoons, etc.) trying match stylistically was a challenge (heck, just getting it to come out was tough enough).

The other piece was a William Bolcolm work (concerto for sax quartet) wich the two tuba parts (Tuba I, Tuba II) where the result of a wind band arrangement of the orgininal orchestral version (done by the composer). Unfortunately the Tuba II part fell victim to the string bass transposition of an octave, so the second part merely doubled the Tuba I part down the octave... not a big deal on an isolated whole note, or quarter note passage... but sixteenth note runs didn't quite happen. All for an effect I guess? It was **almost** unplayable is SOME parts, but I suppose there is someone somewhere that could play it, just wasn't me. (it wasn't for lack of trying)

[pierso20]

While there is a lot of merit to everyone's "complaint" of these composers...

1) If it is the COMPOSERS negligence and inexperience, then so be it.

BUT

2) I can't help but wonder how musicians felt in previous centuries while composers were pushing the envelope. I'm sure there were violinists, clarinet players, etc who felt they were being asked "impossible" things....things which now are considered "normal".

No problem with pushing the envelope (assuming that is the intent - such as with the Corigliano example.)

[tubajazzo]

Composing unplayable music is easier then composing playable things that sound interesting imho. Pushing the envelope is another thing. But impossible long sustains with crescendo to fffff are nonsense, and the composer should know this. Maybe one can do the sustain with some noisy circular breathing, but not the crescendo.

[PMeuph]

2) I can't help but wonder how musicians felt in previous centuries while composers were pushing the envelope. I'm sure there were violinists, clarinet players, etc who felt they were being asked "impossible" things....things which now are considered "normal".

No problem with pushing the envelope (assuming that is the intent - such as with the Corigliano example.)

This is a complicated issue on certain levels. Returning to an argument I made in another thread, several instruments in the 19th century evolved quite a bit. (The piano was transformed from a wonky wooden thingy to a solid iron re-enforced double-actionable-lever machine) (Valves were added to brass instruments around 1800) (The list could go on.....)

The point is that one a certain level certain instruments evolved and allowed "unplayable" music to be played.

However, the original point of this thread, has nothing to do with that. Human tuba players will never be able to sustain a long held not with cresc./decresc. in the low range for a minute...(Maybe those Toyota robot-musicians will be able some day.)

Some things are easy to determine as if they are "Pushing the envelope." As a simple rule of thumb, if there is a physical limitation (ie. Number of air needed to play a lick, it is surely poorly written)

[Mark]

Addendum

There are some arrangers of music, originally scored for film soundtracks, that don't realize the original performers may very well have had a microphone stuck down their bell. Playing whole-note pedal Cs at fff for 60 measures just doesn't work well in a live performance.

[Rick Denney]

The question all composers should be compelled to answer in college is this: Is the music playable? Has it been tested? Do their professors complain when the work is beyond playable?

They compose for a different instrument (MIDI) than will be performing the work. Let them perform it using a MIDI. If their intent is to perform it with a live orchestra, the capabilities of human beings must be considered.

The point that prior composers pushed the envelope of the possible is the common defense offered by composers. But the curve of the possible, using conventional instruments, has flattened out, and instrument design improvements are working at tiny margins these days. It's not like it was in the 1830's--Wow! We have a valved basstuba instead of that serpent thingie! Look what's possible now!--when the development curve was steep.

And do composers want their works only performed by virtuoso orchestras? How many works are rarely performed because the available local paid-by-the-service orchestra can't make it sound perfect with only one rehearsal, as their maestro (perfect) and board (one rehearsal) demand? One of my favorite works, the Vaughan Williams 4th Symphony, rarely gets performed, and I think in large part because it is technically too demanding for the one-rehearsal-and-three-performances expectations of many orchestras.

In the end, unplayable works often don't survive the premiere. Then, the composers complain that the orchestras are too conservative, the audiences philistine, and the whole world unworthy of their music anyway.

(Even worse than a technically impossible part that requires endless practice just to make manageable is a work that demands all that effort and then doesn't deliver a satisfying musical experience. Pros at least get to cash a check.)

If we complain, though, the problem becomes us. They go out and get some 25-year-old bodybuilder with a 7-liter capacity to play it. It's less musical because it lacks the experience and sensitivity of the experienced performer, but who cares about that? The MIDI sample isn't musical, either, and the composer isn't seeking that type of musicianship.

Rick "who struggles profoundly playing the continuous string-bass parts in some orchestral transcriptions that were supposedly written for amateurs" Denney