How to get a louder sound from a high school tuba section?

[Donn]

Most adult players will know what you are talking about.

Adult tuba players? Are you kidding?

[Lectron]

You can while playing manipulate the ratio between harmonic and fundamental.

Our preferences when it comes to how load things seems is far above any tuba fundamentals.
IOW....A thinner crispy sound will sound just as load, but within the register the Tuba
is supposed to contribute with it's bottom tone of a cord etc. nothing much is happening.

Keep i simple! Do they know how to make a round sustain tone, the rest is a piece of cake
There will still be enough harmonics for all of us...Focusing on the harmonics is inventing a problem

[Rick Denney]

Focusing on the harmonics is inventing a problem

With all due respect, I was not focusing on the harmonics (or lack of them). You were, with your use of the word "sunusoidal", which, in fact, includes no harmonics. I did not disagree with anything else you said, except for your repeated accusation that I did. If you will not see that, then there's no point in showing it to you again.

Rick "now done" Denney

[USStuba04]

+1 for working on tone first, it's the long road but the end result is worth the time.

[luke_hollis]

So, did the High School tuba section here follow any advice given and if so, what was the result?

[rebelstrike]

We had marching (facing) issues that have taken up most of our sectional time, but so far I've realized a lot. Minus my section leader and one other tuba, none of us really know what it sounds like to play in tune (including me.) We all can hear like differences between C and B, but we have difficulties hearing pitch problems. I dont know if its just because our sound comes from right next to our ear and everyone else's comes from further out, or what. Our tuning is pretty good if we do tuning sequences one by one with a personal tuner, but when we play different notes we don't hear if someone is a few cents sharp or flat. Another thing with that is I cant hear anyone especially towards the end of the show when we are spread out like 6-8 steps and backfield. So are there certain points where I should "try to be a hero" because its hard to hear anyone else? Thanks everyone for the help!

[sloan]

We had marching (facing) issues that have taken up most of our sectional time, but so far I've realized a lot. Minus my section leader and one other tuba, none of us really know what it sounds like to play in tune (including me.) We all can hear like differences between C and B, but we have difficulties hearing pitch problems. I dont know if its just because our sound comes from right next to our ear and everyone else's comes from further out, or what. Our tuning is pretty good if we do tuning sequences one by one with a personal tuner, but when we play different notes we don't hear if someone is a few cents sharp or flat. Another thing with that is I cant hear anyone especially towards the end of the show when we are spread out like 6-8 steps and backfield. So are there certain points where I should "try to be a hero" because its hard to hear anyone else? Thanks everyone for the help!

No

[Rick Denney]

The ability to hear pitch clearly is tied to the issue of making a clear pitch. When playing more loudly than your air and embouchure can support, the tone spreads and the pitch center gets lost. See if that truth helps you explain what is happening. Even on a football field, tone is everything.

Rick "six clean and resonant mezzo-forte pitches are easier to tune and will sound louder than than six heroes creating an untunable blastfest" Denney

[Uncle Buck]

Just have your out-of-tune/bad-tone players start using this mouthpiece. It will solve all your problems.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46896" target="_blank

[luke_hollis]

Our band directors always say not to breathe in phrases, does that rule apply to tubas? I know not to breathe on bar lines and stuff but should I say like "A, and B take a eighth rest length breath on the 6th beat, C and D on the and of 6, E and F on 7, G and H on the and of 7" or something like that?

The general rule on breathing is that you can take a breath anytime it is musically sound and/or no one notices.

In sections and during phrases, if you take a breath, try not to get caught coming back in.

[Dutchtown Sousa]

Speaking about phrasing, don't let your section leader say to the upperclassmen players "just don't breathe when they breath" [to lowerclassmen] "You guys just breath normally". It doesn't work and we still have the problem of him listening to my idea of "Ohh wouldn't it make sense if we staggered our breaths so there is always sound coming out? You three make group A, Winston an I will be group B..."
BTW the section I am in buries the rest of the band. Part of playing loud has to do with the embouchure placement on the mouthpiece. Many band directors try a "one size fits all" approach with embouchure placement and that is like ordering shirts for a random group of people and only getting mediums while some people will need smalls and some will need XXL. Have people try different lip placement, such as tons of top lip with little bottom lip, tons of bottom lip with little to lip, slightly more top than bottom, etc, etc. Also look up some breathing exercises, they reslly help open up your lungs to play.

Also don't let your section leader tell you that all octaves should be played with the same embouchure and that adjusting to play low or high is cheating. Also don't let idiots be your section leader.

[Dutchtown Sousa]

BTW the section I am in buries the rest of the band.

okay to be fair we are a AA band with 5 sousas, all of us are actully decently loud players

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the rest of the band sucks

[Mark]

+1

[Rick Denney]

...Part of playing loud has to do with the embouchure placement on the mouthpiece. Many band directors try a "one size fits all" approach with embouchure placement and that is like ordering shirts for a random group of people and only getting mediums while some people will need smalls and some will need XXL. Have people try different lip placement, such as tons of top lip with little bottom lip, tons of bottom lip with little to lip, slightly more top than bottom, etc, etc. Also look up some breathing exercises, they reslly help open up your lungs to play.

Also don't let your section leader tell you that all octaves should be played with the same embouchure and that adjusting to play low or high is cheating. Also don't let idiots be your section leader.

You are certainly sure of a lot of things. But what you are recommending represents a significant departure from what the best teachers teach, and what the best tuba players do.

If playing with "tons" of top or bottom lip makes the sound louder, then your fundamentals are wrong to begin with.

Rick "do you want people to be impressed by a deep, rich sound that carries or do you want to sound like an elephant farting upwind?" Denney

[Dutchtown Sousa]

You are certainly sure of a lot of things. But what you are recommending represents a significant departure from what the best teachers teach, and what the best tuba players do.

If playing with "tons" of top or bottom lip makes the sound louder, then your fundamentals are wrong to begin with.

Rick "do you want people to be impressed by a deep, rich sound that carries or do you want to sound like an elephant farting upwind?" Denney

Well if that is the ONLY way you can play loud, if the tone is good then it is alright that you are playing that way but if you lose your tone playing it that way then obviously you would be right. Part of playing loud has to do with your chops being developed (enough to hold your embouchure), part of it has to do with the having the right embouchure for you at all dynamics (playing loud shouldn't make you have to move up or down on the mouthpiece, only changing notes should make you do that). That goes right back to the suggestion of people working on getting your section to play with good tone. I guess I worded my original statement wrong. I meant to say is having the correct embouchure to begin with can help you play louder with good tone because unless the music is written to the contrary, good tone is always better than volume.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Just have your out-of-tune/bad-tone players start using this mouthpiece. It will solve all your problems.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=46896

Oh, yeah! Nice wide flat rim ... that'll do the trick!

[jamsav]

BTW the section I am in buries the rest of the band.

okay to be fair we are a AA band with 5 sousas, all of us are actully decently loud players

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the rest of the band sucks

I dont think you guys need to play louder...not sure I d want to hear that band...
this thread adds credence to the old adage, that tubists don't have delusions of grandeur, they have illusions of adequacy...louder is not the answer...to the OP- dont post for advice when clearly you dont need it...you seem to already have all of the answers...

[Mark]

...to the OP- dont post for advice when clearly you dont need it...you seem to already have all of the answers...

+1

[pittbassdaddy]

Offering a bit of a different perspective here...
Last summer I had the privelage of being in a community band with a young tubist (9th grade) that just could not be heard. I actually encouraged the loud obnoxious sound that some of the people on this forum tend to disagree with during rehearsal. I was able to get him to associate loud with fun. And Louder Was Funner.

This was done to get him to understand just how much air he needed to move to get to forte and louder volume, and to build lung capacity. Once that foundation was established, I showed him just how much more sound you could produce with a good clear tone and excellent support. Following the instilled desire to play louder, he began to emulate that sound.

Now he understood what loud sounded like, and what good sounded like. It was time to put the two together. To get him to increase volume from there I had him play a note in the middle range of the horn (F for example) and increase dynamic from forte to blastissimo, focusing on how his embrocure responded at the breaking point (where loud got ugly) and the feedback he was getting from the horn. I had him repeat that over most of his range. The next week, he was playing noticibly louder before blasting. It was just a matter of motivation, and getting him to experiment and figure out what works best for him. At the rate he's been improving, he'll be able to play louder and cleaner than me by next season.

Hope that helps!

[Dutchtown Sousa]

I dont think you guys need to play louder...not sure I d want to hear that band...
this thread adds credence to the old adage, that tubists don't have delusions of grandeur, they have illusions of adequacy...louder is not the answer...to the OP- dont post for advice when clearly you dont need it...you seem to already have all of the answers...

Louder (with good tone) is the answer for us for our fanfares. While playing with the band we are certainly loud enough (except on lower stuff). Thing is hopefully our band will be getting better next year because we will probably become a AAA band because of all the new people coming in. Once we have a high brass section that doesn't suck, I will say we have a good band but until then I would agree with you that you probably wouldn't want to hear us in the stands, but for our shows you would probably think we are decently good, but not exceptionally good. I do have high hopes for next year