Electronic tuner

[ralphbsz]

Warning: I know nothing about playing the tuba, except for having a 7th grade son who is beginning to learn it. And as a piano player, I obviously have a hard time relating to a question like intonation (I just press a key, and if it doesn't sound right, call someone to fix it).

I think that my son should probably use an electronic tuner occasionally when practicing to make sure his pitch is ok. Just waiting for me (or his teacher) to complain is probably no good. And while playing with piano makes him adjust his pitch, it's probably better if he gets more feedback, in particular when practicing by himself. Am I completely off base?

There are lots of models available. Do most of them work at the low frequencies of a tuba? Any particular models recommended? It seems to me that clip-on models won't work, since there is no place on a tuba where the tuner would be visible while on the instrument, right? Is there ever any value in using a clip-on or wired tuner while playing in an ensemble? On one hand, it could be distracting, on the other hand on long notes it might help a beginner maintain intonation. Sorry, but I'm lacking intuition here.

[Dutchtown Sousa]

Well if he has a smartphone there are tuner apps (I am not sure how much they cost if any since I don't have a smartphone or a phone for that matter), but if he doesn't I'd guess most electronic tuners on the market would be able to respond to a tuba

[arpthark]

Try the Korg TM-40. It picks up low frequencies very well, is accurate, and has a built-in metronome to boot. If he takes good care of it, it can last him through high school or beyond. Nearly all my section-mates in our university tuba studio (including me) have one as well, FWIW. You can get them fairly cheap online:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... ps-sellers" target="_blank

[termite]

I'll second what Brian said.

The electronic tuner is one of the worst things ever invented.

Adjusting pitch to be in tune with the piano is very good practice and a vital skill.
Every player I know who has a tuner on their stand has no ear for pitch whatsoever. They are completely unable to listen to the music around them and adjust their pitch to fit in with it - their intonation is simply hopeless.

Here's a suggestion. Play the first note of the scale over and over on the piano while your son plays slowly up and down the scale. Your son can listen to the interval between whatever note of the scale he is playing and the first note of the scale played on the piano and adjust so that the two notes harmonise. This is much better than matching the piano note for note. This is the only way to really learn how to play in tune.

The other thing to remember is that the electronic tuner works on the equal temperament tuning system - this is a man-made compromise system invented for tuning keyboard instruments.
When you play or sing a scale by ear so that it sounds right you end up with a quite uneven progression.
Singers, string players and wind players can adjust their pitch as they go so that each note finds it's spot in the music.
It is not practical to re-tune a keyboard instrument every time the music changes key, hence the need to find a compromise system.
The equal temperament system is horribly out of tune but it sounds the same in every key.

Try playing a C on the piano and sing an E three notes above it - DON'T play the E on the piano. Adjust the sung E until you can't hear beats (wah,wah) and the whole thing sounds resonant and mellow and it feels like your sung E is harmonising with the piano's C. Then play an E on the piano and hear how much sharper the piano's E is compared to the one you were singing.
Your ear is right - the tuner and your freshly tuned piano are wrong.

The tuner cannot hear whether your son's playing is harmonising with the music around him - it can only count cycles per second and compare them to the terribly out of tune equal temperament system.

I hope this is of some help and not too heavy.

Regards

Gerard

[tclements]

Don't worry about a tuner for now. Just get him playing and listening!!

[imperialbari]

Playing with a tuner takes a level of consciousness not necessarily to be expected by a young person. Too harsh demands on intonation may kill his motivation, especially if his instrument isn’t very good.

My own teaching method included getting the student the best instrument within the given economic frame. And then playing in harmony with the student whenever possible very often making up my own parts on the fly. The combination of piano and tuba isn’t as efficient in the ears of a tubist as the duo of two brasses, but it still carries a wealth of potential, musically as well as socially/familywise.

If a tuner, then hardly one of the stroboscope applications for iPad/iPhone. I have a good one for my iPad, but it is extremely sensitive towards foreign noises. It also is so sensitive, that it takes quite developed playing skills to make the various bands stand still. For a student I would prefer the Snark clamp-on tuner set to vibration sensor mode rather than microphone mode.

Some like playing over drones. My Yahoo based project offering free music and teaching materials has several sets of chromatically ascending drones. If you have software for editing MP3 files you might be able to make a relevant selection of drones for your son from my files.

The index for my project is here:

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Yo ... 0%20Index/

Klaus

[Michael Bush]

One thing about smartphone apps.... I have the Peterson tuner app on my iPhone, but find that it has the problem you are concerned about, OP. It doesn't always recognize the pitch. It picks up an overtone instead of the note I'm playing.

I second (or third) the suggestion of the little Korg tuner/metronome. In addition, I also have a larger Korg "orchestral" tuner, which will play drone notes. I play scales using that, as another poster suggested doing with the piano. For me, playing scales against a drone is a more valuable method of ear training than the visual cue of a tuner. I use the tuner to set the horn up at the beginning of practice or rehearsal, then turn it off.

[ppalan]

I pretty much agree with what's been said about the necessity of developing the ability to hear proper intonation. Bloke's idea of the guitar tuner exercise is an excellent idea. Electronic tuners have their place which, in my opinion is to set a starting point and then use your ears. Your issue of the clip on tuners is valid. They're nearly impossible to see on a tuba. The Korg tuner that was mentioned, as well as several others can be used with an accessory, clip on mic that plugs into the input jack and has a fairly long cord so that the tuner can be on a music stand. Singing individual notes, singing the exercises from his lesson book, and playing simple songs (folk songs, christmas carols, church hymns, etc.) by ear is also great for developing the ear. Good Luck.

[Art Hovey]

Ear training is certainly important, but a Korg is also very useful for settling arguments about which member of the section is out of tune. It is also good for discovering the intonation quirks of your instrument. Every home should have one, but it should not be turned on all the time. Bloke's suggestion about tuning a guitar is also a good one.