EEb as do-it-all horn?

[Steve Inman]

@ Kanstul 66 Eb comments:

I'm intrigued by the front action model, but I'm a little concerned about the smaller bore size. How is the low register with this model? Similar to a compensating Eb? Similar to a 186BBb? Open and free blowing? How is the intonation overall? (I suppose I should go search TubeNet, to see what has been reported about it so far.)
I am glad to see a manufacturer bring out a bigger Eb, so I'll certainly have to try it if I can find one.

{also ... howdy, Bob...}

Cheers,

[Mojo workin']

@ Kanstul 66 Eb comments:

I'm intrigued by the front action model, but I'm a little concerned about the smaller bore size. How is the low register with this model? Similar to a compensating Eb? Similar to a 186BBb? Open and free blowing? How is the intonation overall? (I suppose I should go search TubeNet, to see what has been reported about it so far.)
I am glad to see a manufacturer bring out a bigger Eb, so I'll certainly have to try it if I can find one.

{also ... howdy, Bob...}

Cheers,

The Kanstul 66 is the easiest playing Eb I've found. I think you owe it to yourself to try one and see if if fits your all around needs. I think it will.

From these two posts, it has definitely caught my interest. I am picturing a more nimble, slightly more focused, CB50 kind of a horn. I owned a Canadian Brass, I liked so many things about it. I felt that it was capable of doing it all. Sounded a bit tubby in a quintet when I heard a colleague play his with his quintet.

Can the Kanstul 66 handle 70-85 piece orchestra work?

[PhilGreen]

For those who are not troubled by the compensating Eb's low register "feel", the 981 might be the closest Eb to a do-it-all tuba. The 2040/5 would be MY personal choice for this horn, unless I could find a well-in-tune 4V monster Eb and add a 5th valve to it.
(*the key to this discussion, imo)


My experience, fwiw...

I'd second Steve's comments. 25 years of playing in or around the UK's top brass bands had made me believe that the 981/982 "experience" was the only one worth having. Why bother pulling slides to get stuff in tune when your tuba can do it for you? I'd been involved with Gerhardt Meinl in the late 90's when we developed the Courtois 181 for brass bands, spending many happy hours in their Geretsried factory.
I played in a pretty proficient semi-pro quintet and played with many of the UK better freelance orchestras and my 981 did it all. Why change?

However, in October last year I commissioned a band arrangement of "Play that country tuba, Cowboy" to play at the UK's Brass In Concert contest and thought it would be novel, if not unusual for the audience, to play it on a rotary tuba. I also commissioned some artwork to go with the performance via the large screen in the hall - my avatar is one of the pictures.
I played it at 3 contests in 2010, on a 1960's B+S 4 valve, a Starlight and a Norwegian Star, kindly lent me by Mark Carter.

All of a sudden something strange happened - I could play low notes, admittedly sharp, with the same (minimal) resistance as I could play in the stave. With a little bit of slide pulling I could even get these notes in tune! It was an Epiphanal moment for me.

Earlier this year I road-tested the Starlight and Norwegian Star - both great tubas. I could rattle out stuff on the Starlight that I thought I was past playing and the NS made a beautiful sound with the quintet. However as soon as I played the 2040/5 I fell in love with the dark sound it helps me make, plus it's centre and flexibility in the high register.
I've now played in all the combinations I normally play with (BB, 5tet, 10tet, Orch) and it's been brilliant in all cases.

I tried a CC when I was choosing my new instrument, in fact did quite a bit of playing on a prototype Miraphone that Mark is working on, but as I tend to play pretty high stuff, through choice, quite a lot, I found it too much like hard work - although I would say that the CC had the "nicest" sound of any tuba I've ever played.

Long story but I think it sort of demonstrates my take on this subject.

[Curmudgeon]

All of a sudden something strange happened - I could play low notes, admittedly sharp, with the same (minimal) resistance as I could play in the stave. With a little bit of slide pulling I could even get these notes in tune! It was an Epiphanal moment for me.

You're screwed! You've tasted the sweetly bitter fruit of the other side!

[opus37]

From these two posts, it has definitely caught my interest. I am picturing a more nimble, slightly more focused, CB50 kind of a horn. I owned a Canadian Brass, I liked so many things about it. I felt that it was capable of doing it all. Sounded a bit tubby in a quintet when I heard a colleague play his with his quintet.

Can the Kanstul 66 handle 70-85 piece orchestra work?

I don't think I could handle a 70 -85 piece orchestra with my 66T, but the right player may be able to do it. I'm not particularly a loud player so someone with more volume might manage it. This may be a test we should challenge Kanstul to take up. I find the Kanstul 66 horns very well suited to solo, quintet, brass bands and smaller orchestras. As far as being in tune, I only have to lip up the low Eb. That's likely an operator inherent flaw. Everything else seems in tune according to my Korg tuner.

[fulerzoo]

Can the Kanstul 66 handle 70-85 piece orchestra work?

I don't think I could handle a 70 -85 piece orchestra with my 66T, but the right player may be able to do it. I'm not particularly a loud player so someone with more volume might manage it. This may be a test we should challenge Kanstul to take up. I find the Kanstul 66 horns very well suited to solo, quintet, brass bands and smaller orchestras. As far as being in tune, I only have to lip up the low Eb. That's likely an operator inherent flaw. Everything else seems in tune according to my Korg tuner.

I have no problem playing mine loud and with assertion from low C (two ledger lines below the staff) and above. I think it will handle a large portion of orchestral literature but very low/heavy/loud pieces will not be a good fit.

The low Eb that you mention is quite "bendable". It's not a problem if you are thinking and hearing an "Eb". The intonations on my 66T benefit from the use of alternate fingerings from third space E to fourth space G. In the low ranges it has excellent false tones and that leaves only a couple of low notes that I have to manage due to a bit of air resistance.

I'm quite pleased with my 66T. It's a gas to play and a great fit for my small ensemble and brass band needs. Save the big low loud stuff for your "big loud low" other horn.

[Doc]

All of a sudden something strange happened - I could play low notes, admittedly sharp, with the same (minimal) resistance as I could play in the stave. With a little bit of slide pulling I could even get these notes in tune! It was an Epiphanal moment for me.

You're screwed! You've tasted the sweetly bitter fruit of the other side!

"You are unwise to lower your defenses!"


"You don't know the power of the dark side!"


"He will join us or die, my master."

[Steve Inman]

Doc - I acquired a Kanstul EEb ( 66T - 4 valves top action) about a year ago. It's got a sound to die for. For me, it fills my British Brass Band and most quintet needs quite well. My playing mate in my Brass Band has a Willson EEb and and I've tooted it enough to say that with confidence that it is MUCH more open and powerful in the low ranges. It would require some real effort (and talent) to use my Kanstul as a low range "do it all" horn but the Willson easily has that capability.

This is the quote I read that causes me to wonder if the Kanatul is as strong as I would prefer in low register passages.

Certainly willing to be persuaded,

[opus37]

Well, it seems that you have to just try a Kanstul, a Wilson and a 981. From this very long thread, there is consensus that a Eb can be a do it all horn and these 3 seem to have the most recommendations for being able to do it. I think you will find differences in sound and capabilities of the horns, but one of them will likely meet your needs. Oh, and then you can work on finding the right mouthpiece.......

[elihellsten]

Recently found this tread. Just have to ad that my Norwegian Star works as a charm in every ensemble I've played it in! It's a fantastic solo instrument (obviously, Baadsvik and so on). But a few weeks ago i performed Pictures at an Exhibition, and it worked like a charm both in Bydlo and in The Great Gate at Kiev (filled with pedal C:s and similar). It has without any doubt the best low register of any Eb tuba i've played, in my opinion better than compensated horns such as the 981 since I find the Miraphone much more free blowing. Recently I also played other rather low orchestral pieces such as Tchaikovskys Seventh. The conductor praised it's sound and how well it worked together with the trombones.

[tooba]

Recently I also played other rather low orchestral pieces such as Tchaikovskys Seventh.

I hope you mean Tchaikovsky's Sixth, as that was the last Symphony he wrote.

-----Back on topic-----

A large Eb can be a good "all around" tuba, but even the largest ones just cant compete with a typical contrabass (CC or BBb) tuba when deep full/loud sound is needed in large ensembles. Large Eb tubas work GREAT in quintet though.

[elihellsten]

Aah, no, just wrote the wrong composer. It should say Shostakovich. Russian names + fever = ...