TRANSPOSING IS NOT...

[cle_tuba]

Hello Guys ...

I need a help from everyone ...
I know that the tube is not but ...
Where I think saying that writing the tuba TRANSPOSING IS NOT?
Urgent need ...

Thank you and big hug

[PMeuph]

If I understand you correctly, I think you are looking for a reference stating that the Tuba is not written as a transposed instrument. Right?

If yes here is an orchestration book ( Cecil Forsyth) that states that in the first paragraph at the top of the page.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=15eYJgi ... ba&f=false" target="_blank

However, you should know that the tuba is sometimes writte as a transposing instrument. This is especially true in British Brass bands, in which Tubas are written in Eb &B Bb.

[PMeuph]

If they play in a "British Brass Band", they read off a treble clef chart,
But both parts (bass tuba and contras base tuba) both read treble clef in CONCERT PITCH.

Nope,this is incorrect, the only concert pitch part in a Brass band is the bass trombone.

[Dan Schultz]

...... If they play in a "British Brass Band", they read off a treble clef chart,
But both parts (bass tuba and contras base tuba) both read treble clef in CONCERT PITCH.
Looking at the above post, I guess I could be wrong.

Goodgigs.... the Eb and BBb tuba parts are written in treble clef and are transposed for either instrument. Trumpet fingerings apply to all the brass band treble clef parts.

[Dan Schultz]

... the Eb and BBb tuba parts are written in treble clef and are transposed for either instrument. Trumpet fingerings apply to all the brass band treble clef parts.

As long as you learned to play a four or five valve trumpet when you were a kid, that's easy.

bloke "just being a dumbass/smartass"

Well.... some of the 'greats' would have said that anything can be played on a three-valved tuba.

Of course... those trumpet freaks have nifty little 'kickers' on their 1st and 3rd slides. Frankly... I think trumpets might be better with 4th and 5th valves.

Dan "thinking that three-valves are standard and everything else is just presents alternate fingerings"

PS... speaking of trumpets... I went to The Hadi Shrine Circus last night. It's a very unique event inasmuch as it's still a three-ring circus and has a live circus band instead of 'canned' music. Four trumpets, three trombones, three saxes, keyboard, drums, but a bass guitar instead of a tuba. Those damned trumpets too everything they could up an octave (or two). I swear... it sounded like the recording of 'Trumpet Christmas' that I won't post because it's been 'round the block far too many times already!

[peter birch]

If they play in a "British Brass Band", they read off a treble clef chart,
But both parts (bass tuba and contras base tuba) both read treble clef in CONCERT PITCH.

Nope,this is incorrect, the only concert pitch part in a Brass band is the bass trombone.

…and the tuned percussion that we see more and more in brass band music, however there is nothing to stop us learning to play in concert pitch and so avoiding any need to transpose

[AndyCat]

If they play in a "British Brass Band", they read off a treble clef chart,
But both parts (bass tuba and contras base tuba) both read treble clef in CONCERT PITCH.

Nope,this is incorrect, the only concert pitch part in a Brass band is the bass trombone.

…and the tuned percussion that we see more and more in brass band music, however there is nothing to stop us learning to play in concert pitch and so avoiding any need to transpose

Leave it! I don't want parts littered with ledger lines! Everything around the stave is GREAT compared to Bass Clef. And I read both all the time, BTW.

[Dan Schultz]

... Leave it! I don't want parts littered with ledger lines! Everything around the stave is GREAT compared to Bass Clef. And I read both all the time, BTW.

If we could get the composers (and arrangers) to keep stuff in a reasonable range.... NONE of us would have to worry much about ledger lines.

[peter birch]

Leave it! I don't want parts littered with ledger lines! Everything around the stave is GREAT compared to Bass Clef. And I read both all the time, BTW.

I do too, but find it frustrating that some music is beyond playing because my low brass colleagues can't "transpose" (or read) the bass clef.

[sloan]

Hi new guy !
The tuba is the left hand of the piano pure and simple.
All the different size tubas use the same music,
If they play in a "British Brass Band", they read off a treble clef chart,
But both parts (bass tuba and contras base tuba) both read treble clef in CONCERT PITCH.
Looking at the above post, I guess I could be wrong.

You are correct, sir - you are, indeed, wrong.

[eeferlife]

There is one rather bizarre anomaly that I encountered a number of years ago when working with a colleague who was editing some original sources from manuscript: Apparently it was the practice at one time for tuba parts in Finnish brass music to be written in TRANSPOSED BASS CLEF (??!!).

Yes, dat's wight, wabbit: a Bb or F tuba part, notated in bass clef, but transposed to appear as if it were for a tuba in C.

I realise that treble clef parts had (have) their place: in a BBB or Salvationist environment, they allow players to switch from one section to another without having to learn new fingerings; just the embouchure and quirks of a new instrument. Or, historically it allowed, say, your 2nd alto horn player to take up the Bb bass player's instrument when he was laid low by a Greycoat's lucky rifle shot.

But transposed bass clef seems to be something approaching insanity. Maybe it's those 9-month-long winters up there ... freezes the brain or something ...

Regards (and Respect),

Brian

(Who has to use occasionally and keep straight fingerings for Bb and Eb tubas, C and F recorders, Boehm and Meyer flutes, and serpent; plus slide positions for tenor and bass sackbutts. No wonder my hair has thinned ...)

[finnbogi]

There is one rather bizarre anomaly that I encountered a number of years ago when working with a colleague who was editing some original sources from manuscript: Apparently it was the practice at one time for tuba parts in Finnish brass music to be written in TRANSPOSED BASS CLEF (??!!).

I've seen these as well. Some band music publishers (e.g. Molenaar in the Netherlands) include the transposed bass clef parts in their arrangements.

Incidentally, last month I was asked to play a programme of old French, Belgian and Dutch marches, most of which had tuba parts written in transposed bass clef (mostly Bb but also Eb parts). The 'saxhorn basse in sib' parts were not so difficult as I only needed to transpose down a major second, but the 'saxhorn contrabasse in sib' parts were a bit more challenging, as I had to transpose down a major ninth.

[oedipoes]

There is one rather bizarre anomaly that I encountered a number of years ago when working with a colleague who was editing some original sources from manuscript: Apparently it was the practice at one time for tuba parts in Finnish brass music to be written in TRANSPOSED BASS CLEF (??!!).

Yes, dat's wight, wabbit: a Bb or F tuba part, notated in bass clef, but transposed to appear as if it were for a tuba in C.

I realise that treble clef parts had (have) their place: in a BBB or Salvationist environment, they allow players to switch from one section to another without having to learn new fingerings; just the embouchure and quirks of a new instrument. Or, historically it allowed, say, your 2nd alto horn player to take up the Bb bass player's instrument when he was laid low by a Greycoat's lucky rifle shot.

But transposed bass clef seems to be something approaching insanity. Maybe it's those 9-month-long winters up there ... freezes the brain or something ...

Regards (and Respect),

Brian

(Who has to use occasionally and keep straight fingerings for Bb and Eb tubas, C and F recorders, Boehm and Meyer flutes, and serpent; plus slide positions for tenor and bass sackbutts. No wonder my hair has thinned ...)

Brian,

The transposed bass clef notation is common practice in Belgium and (I think) France for all wind orchestras.
It is used together with transposed treble clef (brass band) notation on a 50/50 base.
It is used for euphonium, EEb and BBb tuba. Only C tuba players seem to read orchestral notation.

The biggest advantage is that there are almost no ledger lines.
The biggest disadvantage is that almost no amateur EEb and BBb tuba players over here are able to read orchestral music.
I have been learning how to read it for 2 years now, and I'm finally getting somewhere only recently.

The problem is, that the notes in my head are also transposed.
I can play a tune I hear on the radio, on my BBb tuba, no problem.
But if I were asked to write it down, the notes would appear to be transposed.
So in my head the 'open fundamental note' on my BBb tuba is a 'C'...

This is how I read orchestral tuba music for my BBb tuba:
I transpose the note I would read in transposed Bass clef one octave and one whole tone up, and add two sharps to the key.
Example:
The note written on the lowest line, in transposed bass clef, I read (and think) a low G, and play it on 4th valve on my BBb tuba, sounding as a low F to you.
In orchestral notation, the same lowest line note: I read the low G as explained above, transpose one octave up to middle G and add a whole tone to middle A.
The result of this (instant) process in my head is that I press 1+2nd valve on my BBb tuba, I think 'A' and the note would sound like a middle G to you.

Additionally, we use the do, re, mi, fa ... system (think sound of music) in stead of the A, B, C, ...
So actually, in the example above, I'm thinking 'la', press 1+2nd valve and it would sound like the 'open' G on C-tuba to you.

Wim