Old Barcone mini sousa questions!

[abracadabra]

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Folks I picked this baby up locally, I'm pretty excited about it.

Its an old Barcone mini sousaphone. The bell is 20" and the bore is right around .540"-.545", teeny tiny!

In the pics all the slides and valves are out, I gave it a good bath. Its in pretty decent shape, dents are VERY minimal, the bell flare needs re-soldered as does one brace.

I have some questions though.

It does have the original gooseneck but no tuning bits. The owner, an old music teacher, said he got it without bits and the mouthpiece that he had (which he lost) fit right in to the gooseneck. Could this be true? I'm not sure how there would be room for bits, when I put the sousaphone on the gooseneck puts the mouthpiece right there.
Whats more, I took a pick of this, the goose neck is tapered inside to take a tapere shank, is this common? I notice this because the only bits I have are new King ones and they aren't tapered and don't fit in any way shape or form.

This leads me to the moutphiece question! The tuba mouthpiece I have is way too big and the trombone mouthpiece I have is way too small. The trombone mouthpiece does allow me to blow and open Bb so I can verify pitch. What would be a good place to start mouthpiece wise?

And lastly, there' s a missing water key. I order woodwind supplies from Ferrees usually, and I notice they sell "univeral keys" for trumpet and trombone, would any of these work for me?

thanks for any help, can't wait to get her running! Its mostly for my son, but, I'm sure I'm gonna play it too!

mark

[imperialbari]

Searching via the address under Occupation in my profile you may find scans of a Barcone flyer.

Klaus

[Donn]

To me, 0.54 bore seems about normal for a baritone.

It may very well not take bits. European helicons don't. If it plays in tune without them, then you probably don't want them in any case.

Baritones take several different mouthpiece shank sizes. The largest is similar to bass trombone, slightly larger than Eb small shank tuba mouthpiece, smallest is like small shank trombone, and apparently there's a size in between. Hopefully, you have the large shank, fairly easy to find, but then the ideal exact mouthpiece for that thing is kind of a head-scratcher. I'd start with something moderate like a Schilke 51D, not a big bass trombone mouthpiece.

[saxophyte]

You got a good deal for $50.00

[imperialbari]

Vincent Bach made dedicated mouthpieces for the Barcone sousaphones. Last I looked these mouthpieces were still made.

Klaus

[Shockwave]

I have a horn that looks similar if not identical, except labeled "Kris Kratt". It has a .560 bore like a baritone or bass trombone and accepts a bass trombone shank mouthpiece with no bit required. Old Eb tuba mouthpieces have the same smaller shank. I've been using a Marcinkiewicz 108 with it.

[imperialbari]

Kris Kratt was a stencil name for Hüttl.

As understand it, Barcone instruments were made in New York.

Klaus

[abracadabra]

Do the Bach mouthpieces for the Barcone's have a certain number/name?

I forgot to mention, shank-wise on this one: I've tried a few mouthpieces on this one and the best fit was a Bach Mt. Vernon 12c, the NY 12c I tried was too small (the shank on these being smaller of course). But certainly I want to put a bit more air into than a tenor trombone 12c

Do baritone bits or Eb sousa bits of a shank diameter of a tenor trombone? Or bass trombone?

thanks

mark

[LOTP]

I had one of these SMALL-BORE Barcone BBb sousies about 20 years ago before passing it on to a friend to use with his elementary school band. I was very surprised to find that it took a STANDARD tuba mouthpiece !

Paul (who is no stranger to the world of small-shank tuba mouthpieces)

[abracadabra]

Well I'm wondering since it seems the bore of this thing is in the baritone/euph range that a baritone/euph/trombone mpc might work out okay. I'll have to do some tests with the Bach Mt Vernon 12c, which fits perfectly in the goose neck, once I get the instrument back together. I have to order some more soft solder/flux, as I mostly do silver soldering here (clarinet work)

thanks for all the info so far

mark