How would you approach...

Ames0325 · Post by **Ames0325** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:00 am

Suite for Unaccompanied Tuba by Walter Hartley?
I am working on this right now and I can't for the life of me get any music out of it. I have learned most of the strange intervals and such now by singing and playing it on the piano. But I still can't seem to make much out of the melodies except for a little bit in the Air.
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or advice.

Amy

WoodSheddin · Post by **WoodSheddin** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:27 am

I agree

humphrey · Post by **humphrey** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 7:14 am

Thats some great advice from fortissimosca.

The piece "sits" really nicely on a EEb horn as well. It is definitely worth persevering with.

I had a really hard time making any sense of it until after I'd spent a few days really working to nail the odd interval jumps. When they were comfortable & I was no longer having to think each one through it gave me the freedom to just "listen" to the piece as I was playing. I had a definite road to Damascus moment, where it suddenly made sense & it is a real pleasure to play now.

This piece has definitely helped me & I would recommend it to anyone looking for a solo recital piece.

Best of luck.

Russ

JayW · Post by **JayW** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:54 am

I woud tend to agree with Sean and Harold. Good Luck

Mark · Post by **Mark** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 1:23 pm

Ames0325 wrote:I am working on this right now and I can't for the life of me get any music out of it.Amy

I agree with Sean, Harold and Jason. And, I would point out that if you are having trouble, your audience will have even more. This piece is not an audience pleaser.

Biggs · Post by **Biggs** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:09 pm

The best way to get music out of the Unaccompanied Suite is to trade it in at the music store for Bach/Bell's Air and Bourree.

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:41 pm

Biggs wrote:The best way to get music out of the Unaccompanied Suite is to trade it in at the music store for Bach/Bell's Air and Bourree.

Though the Hartley is hardly my favorite piece of music, I feel it has some musical value. To suggest replacing it with Air & Bourree doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Whether or not the A&B is a better piece isn't even the issue. At issue is whether or not one should learn/program a given piece. I believe there is much to be learned by working up the Hartley. This is true, if for no other reason than it allows one to grow in understanding & interpreting music of that particular style. If we are to dismiss the Hartley, it would seem to make more sense to replace it with another 20th century piece(and perhaps an unaccompanied one). Although there are other pieces which fit the bill, I think the Hartley is a pretty good choice for a first journey into the style.

To the above post, your suggestion may seem right for you. I believe I would stop short of making such a recommendation to someone else.

RSMorgan · Post by **RSMorgan** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:24 pm

Many years ago I used the Hartley as a demonstration piece for 3-6 grade students, as an intro to orchestral instruments (the students were bussed to an orchestra concert the next week). I would ask the students a different question on each movement, such as how does it make you feel, what kind of mood is the music describing, if it were background music for a movie, what would be going on, etc. The kids were always fascinated and attentive, and provided very colorful--and appropriate--comments. I preferred playing this to merely doing familiar tunes on the tuba.

For this to be successful, I had to understand and respect the piece. It did not come easily, though. Some pieces are immediately accessible (Air and Bourree), some take time to percolate through the unconscious (Hartley, and mature performances of the Hindemith). Some that need to percolate are still of lesser value than other works. The Hindemith has more substance than the Hartley, but the Hartley has its value and charm, if you live with it long enough.

Don't give up on the piece yet. You may not understand it even when you have all the intervals and articulations worked out. If you value the opinions of others who have had a good experience with the piece (any piece), be patient. Put it away for a while, and come back to it periodically. I've done that with more than one piece, and been glad of it.

Richard Morgan

Captain Sousie · Post by **Captain Sousie** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:42 pm

Ames0325 wrote:[How would you approach] Suite for Unaccompanied Tuba by Walter Hartley?

With a lighter.

I played the piece, I understood most of the piece, I just hated it. Hang in there, listen to some recordings of it and similar works, make it your own, and it will come to you.

Sousie

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:42 pm

RSMorgan wrote: If you value the opinions of others who have had a good experience with the piece (any piece), be patient. Put it away for a while, and come back to it periodically. I've done that with more than one piece, and been glad of it.

Richard Morgan

Well said!

Bill Troiano · Post by **Bill Troiano** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:43 pm

Walter Hartley was my theory prof. at SUNY Fredonia when I was an undergrad. I played several Hartley pieces while I was there. While working on the Suite, I remember him telling me to play the first mvt. as a march. The second mvt. was to be felt in a slow one, picturing a drinking song and men hoisting beer steins! The third mvt. requires the least explanation - just play it and play dynamics. The 4th mvt. is very fast, as he told me in his deliberate slow speaking voice.
As a side note, Walter was a funny character. It was funny to watch his reaction as a good looking (college) girl would walk by. He would totally stop whatever he was doing or saying and just follow her with his eyes, like he was in a trance. Then, he would resume whatever he had been doing. With all of his quirks, he was a musical genius!

TubaRay · Post by **TubaRay** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:47 pm

Bill Troiano wrote:It was funny to watch his reaction as a good looking (college) girl would walk by. He would totally stop whatever he was doing or saying and just follow her with his eyes, like he was in a trance. Then, he would resume whatever he had been doing. With all of his quirks, he was a musical genius!

What were some of his quirks?

Bill Troiano · Post by **Bill Troiano** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:11 pm

Not that they would all be considered quirks. He wore various plaid sport jackets and bow ties every day. One year, I lived in a house next door to his and I never saw him without a bow tie on. He used to ride this old beat up bicycle to campus every day. He had an extraordinary mind, perfect pitch and a photographic memory. He could play any movement from almost any work, in any key on piano. We would play, Stump Dr. Hartley, on Friday's. We never stumped him. He would approach the piano in his almost timid manner, saying that he didn't think he could recall that one. He'd sit for a moment, and just start playing - anything you asked for and in any key.
I rode with him in a NY State car to the 1st Int. Tuba Symposium at IU in 1973. He was an honored guest, as a composer. Ted Frazier was the pc prof. at SUNY Fredonia and he was a guest also, as he had written a tuba concerto. I had just graduated the day before and they invited me to ride with them. The 3 of us drove from Fredonia to Indiana, which was about an 8 hr. drive. Dr. H. and Mr. F. traded off the driving. I offered, but they insisted the would do it. Well, when Dr. H. got behind the wheel, I feared for my life. It was like the Indy 500. I remember Mr. F. constantly asking him to slow down. Good times! If I think hard enough, I'm sure I could come up with several more Walter Hartley stories!

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:47 pm

TubaRay wrote:What were some of his quirks?

...followed by two paragraphs of explanation.

Good one, Ray. Hook, line, and sinker.

Rick "staying between the lines" Denney

David Zerkel · Post by **David Zerkel** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:46 pm

Well, I'll go on the record as really liking Dr. Hartley's music.

I think that the Unaccompanied Suite is a really nice piece that has much to offer anyone who has the attention span to study it. This is a GREAT piece for establishing different styles and selling those styles for two minutes at a time. Selling things two minutes at a time seems like something that a musician should be able to do... yes?

My advice is to stick with this piece. If you think about the literature that you might be required to play later (Hindemith, Penderecki, Stevens, Gregson, Kraft, John Williams!!!!!! and the list goes on) this piece will provide you the building blocks that you need to understand the more advanced literature. This may very well start a discussion about "tuba music" v. "good music". If so, so be it. But I'll always try to play pieces that stretch me physically and mentally... it is what keeps me going. Some pieces, I may perform once and put away, but I will always grow from pushing my self-imposed limitations.

BTW, I recorded Hartley's First Sonata on my CD and I think that it is the piece that stands up the best from a musical standpoint. I was told that it was a horrible idea to include this piece, but I am glad that I did. It is good music!

Observations about the Unaccompanied Suite:

An Intrada is an Entrance. Play it like you're announcing a King! Be regal!The first movement is all about V-I relationships and shifting key centers. You'll note that almost every V-I is accented... play them like a timpanist to assert the new key area or to resolve the key area you're leaving. Every last one is cadential, so think of using this relationship to understand the phrase structure.

The second movement is my favorite. It alternates between a playful, if not goofy waltz and a more lilting lyrical melody. As you are playing the more active of the two tunes, notice how the top note of the phrase expands chromatically. Try your best to make the the two styles as different from each other as you can. The ending is abrupt and ironic if you can pull it off.

The third movement is the toughest to interpret, I think. I would highly recommend trying to sing this one, not so much for pitch recognition, but for style. I am all about trying to make my playing as much like singing as possible... if you can sing this through intelligibly, you will be able to make it work. Try to get as many different shades of soft dynamic as you can.

The galop is musically pretty straight ahead. I would feel it in one and make it as fast and frisky as you can. It always reminds me of the Overture to the Magic Flute! The middle section should be more lyrical with the quarter notes at the ends of the phrases serving as puncuation. The ending is straight ahead G major.

Good luck, and sorry for the rant!!

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:52 pm

I spent a little time speaking with Dr. Hartley at the USABTEC a few years ago. He was one of the nicest men I have met, and fascinating to talk to.

I find that this piece grows on you. It's not as traditional as some, but has a lot of little interesting transitions that can be fun if you listen for them. It is much more tonal than much of the modern music that is being written today, and much more melodic in many ways. It has to be played through though to hear the themes.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 10:12 pm

What David Zerkel said...

Really! I'm just not a verbose writer, but the way he described it is almost exactly like I play it (on a BBb, too, if it even matters).

You can't be pretty with this one from top to bottom, and you can't merely execute it. Get the pitches down, get the notes happening in time, and when the parts are ready to be assembled, then really exaggerate the dynamics so that you're not afraid anymore of what it sounds like.

THEN the pieces start to come together. It's pretty fun once it gets into gear.

Of course, I'm a little weird, too...

Ames0325 · Post by **Ames0325** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:22 pm

Wow thanks guys for all the great advice it has helped enormously. I Have gotten a lot of workin on this since I aksed this question and am really starting to enjoy the 3rd and 4th movements. I am having a little more difficulty with the 1st two movements though. This is by far one the most fun pieces I have worked on so far if only for its being different. Anyway does anyone know where I can find a recording of this? I have searched high and low for it but have found only one possible lead to an old LP which I am looking for now ( heaven only knows how I am gonna listen to it but we'll cross that road if we get to it.) so I was wondering if anyone knows of any recordings of this and or where I m ight be able to find one.

Amy

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