Music's Black Market

[ShoelessWes]

Per my local NPR station this morning, over 50% of musical instruments sold/resold in the United States are stolen. This has been a common threat for trumpets/saxes/guitar players all along, but I think we have finally reached the point where people are realizing the worth and potential worth of tubas.

Since this problem seems systemic in the music world, this begs the question...

What major changes have to happen within our industry to cut down on this rampant problem?

[Michael Bush]

I wonder if it would be worthwhile for someone, some organization, to keep a registry, where you could register descriptions and serial numbers, and when an instrument is stolen an email blast (or something) goes out to a bunch of police departments, music stores, repair shops, and pawn shops.

[bort]

Short answer: people need to get smarter about protecting their instruments.

Seems to me that a lot of the stolen instruments I've heard about are from crimes of opportunity. Left in plain sight in a car, in an unlocked room, sitting outside on the curb when you go inside for a bit. Thieves don't always know or care what they're stealing, just that it's big and probably worth a bunch of money. Don't give them a chance to steal it, and they'll move on to an easier target. They don't want to get caught!

I've had my car broken into before, I've had my house broken into before, and I've been burgled by an HVAC contractor in my house. Those were all because of dumbass things that gave the thieves an opportunity to get in, grab, and get out.

Keeping my tuba in the trunk of my car for short periods of time only has always kept it safe. If you're taking it to work during the day, bring it inside and put it somewhere safe. Shoot, you could even get a cable bike lock to lock it up and make it annoying for someone to deal with. It doesn't have to be TOTALLY secured, but just annoying enough that someone can't just swipe it quickly and move on to something else.

[ShoelessWes]

Short answer: people need to get smarter about protecting their instruments.

Seems to me that a lot of the stolen instruments I've heard about are from crimes of opportunity. Left in plain sight in a car, in an unlocked room, sitting outside on the curb when you go inside for a bit. Thieves don't always know or care what they're stealing, just that it's big and probably worth a bunch of money. Don't give them a chance to steal it, and they'll move on to an easier target. They don't want to get caught!

I've had my car broken into before, I've had my house broken into before, and I've been burgled by an HVAC contractor in my house. Those were all because of dumbass things that gave the thieves an opportunity to get in, grab, and get out.

Keeping my tuba in the trunk of my car for short periods of time only has always kept it safe. If you're taking it to work during the day, bring it inside and put it somewhere safe. Shoot, you could even get a cable bike lock to lock it up and make it annoying for someone to deal with. It doesn't have to be TOTALLY secured, but just annoying enough that someone can't just swipe it quickly and move on to something else.

Do you not believe that people that sell instruments have a moral obligation to do everything in their power to insure it is not stolen? Some of these instruments are worth more than cars, and we would never settle for this "look the other way" mentality within the automotive industry.


(EDIT) Better phrased as, why do we point so much blame at the victims of these crimes, instead of those that commit them and enable them?

[bort]

Well, I think it's the case that the good guys do, and the bad guys should. "Not doing something" isn't really something that's legally enforceable, even if it's morally correct.

Only savvy dealers/purchasers can really smell a rat if it's a bad deal (like Dan Schultz a few weeks ago!). It's all a matter of how we evaluate and establish a person's credibility in our everyday interactions. If some dude tried to sell me a Hirsbrunner for $1,000 and couldn't answer any of my questions, then no, I wouldn't buy it. I might try to report him, but I'm not sure how actively any police could follow that lead.

And while there are lots of instruments that cost more than cars, it's absolutely incomparable to the number of cars, and the scale of issues that come up with those. There's something like 250 million cars in the US.

[ShoelessWes]

And while there are lots of instruments that cost more than cars, it's absolutely incomparable to the number of cars, and the scale of issues that come up with those. There's something like 250 million cars in the US.

I agree that it is incomparable, but in a different direction.

Far less than 50% of resold/sold cars are stolen.

Wes "realizing that guitars DRASTICALLY skew these stats, and that Bort makes great points (as always, because he's a great poster)"

[tclements]

With places like Facebook, and Tubenet and other tuba related sites, we can stay in touch with each other and help keep track of stolen tubas such as we've seen lately. When something disappears, first thing, CALL THE COPS! File a police report. Have the serial numbers, and other identifying marks about the instrument. Contact all the local music stores, and pawn shops in your area, and around where the instrument disappeared. Before any legitimate business can purchase anything, they file a report that goes to the police. Information is our best weapon. As we have seen recently, post the disappearance here, on FB, on the tubaeuph yahoo group, on the trombone list, Craig's List and anywhere else you can think that might help the instrument get returned.

[ShoelessWes]

What major changes have to happen within our industry to cut down on this rampant problem?

celebration of the second amendment

Cheers to that one!



I'm a proud concealed carry! .38(r) Smith and Wesson hammerless revolver, just waiting for tuba thieves.

[Dan Schultz]

Simply put.... NPR is full of crap!

Since I began repairing professionally about ten years ago... I have accumulated descriptions and serial numbers of about 1,200 music instruments I've either repaired, bought, or sold. According to the NPR statistic... that would mean that 600 of them were stolen at one time or another.

To my knowledge... only one stolen instrument has crossed my path... the St. Pete that came through last week. That guy was caught rather quickly because the serial number was in my database already.

Maybe if the NPR stat had read "50% of all the music instruments sold by pawn shop are stolen"... it would be more believable. Those places go through a heck of a lot of drums and guitars. But... not many tubas!

There's no reason to get too excited about tuba thieves. Just keep a record of your serial numbers in case it does happen.

[Trevor Bjorklund]

I'm gonna guess that, wherever the 50% statistic came from, it was a mistake and will be corrected tomorrow. Likely along the lines of adding "in pawn shops" or something.

I constantly have to drag any/all instruments from my car inside (no matter where I am) since my locks no longer work... Thanks to the last guy who broke in to it!

Also, I'm thinking that a handgun is not going to do much to discourage theft. There are very few thieves who want a confrontation of any kind and you don't need a firearm to scare someone off. Not that I have anything against guns, it's just not a logical or viable solution. PLUS, only last month I saw an ad on Craigslist in Texas by a guy whose tuba AND gun were stolen out of his car!

However, a national registry and a willingness to use it by people in the pawn shop industry and Craigslist would be a great deterrent. If there is no market (or the market is difficult) for stolen instruments, fewer of them will be stolen.

Here's a query for all of you... what if you have an instrument that you love and have played for years but then you find out that it was stolen (at some point in its history). What would you do?

[ShoelessWes]

According to the NPR statistic... that would mean that 600 of them were stolen at one time or another.

TubaTinker, I think we've all conceded that the tuba thing is building, but is far under the curve of such instruments as guitars and saxes/trumpets.

I have no idea where the NPR statistic came from or if it was exclusive to pawn and they didn't say it or what.

That said, with all of the guitars that come in and out of pawn shops, and them being such a high percentage of the instrument market, the 50%+ statistic does not sound that unreasonable. If 80% of instruments sold/resold in pawnshops are stolen, it wouldn't take that long to throw the percentage really high.

I really, REALLY, like the registry idea!

[iiipopes]

Please see my signature. My Dad's trumpet was one of those "50%."

[ShoelessWes]

I have no idea where the NPR statistic came from or if it was exclusive to pawn and they didn't say it or what.

The stat served as a point of discussion, not a doomsday apocalypse.

I was hoping, even if the stat is completely wrong, there could be a discussion about things that need to be reformed to change this growing problem.

[sloan]

Simply put.... NPR is full of crap!

Since I began repairing professionally about ten years ago... I have accumulated descriptions and serial numbers of about 1,200 music instruments I've either repaired, bought, or sold. According to the NPR statistic... that would mean that 600 of them were stolen at one time or another.

BZZZZT!

No - it *might* mean that somewhere there is someone who has bought and sold 1200 instruments, ALL of which were stolen.

[ShoelessWes]

Please post your home addresses and schedules of coming-and-going here.

I am the 1%.

I think this means that "bloke" and the tubenet mafia is willing to let you buy protection for your tubas.

[Dutchtown Sousa]

maybe what should be put in place is like what the KGB did with important intel: The case they put it in would blow up if not opened correctly. Now instead of an explosion if the case was incorrectly opened it would send a message to your email or something and if you received that email you could activate a gps beacon inside the case if your instrument had in fact gone missing (or you could activate it manually from an app if your instrument had been stolen but has not been opened yet . The signal from the beacon could be sent to you and the police department and you would be able to pinpoint where the instrument was. Only problem is cost and the fact you would have a very limited window of time that you could track it because the battery on the beacon would run out. A similar system could be implemented in cars and there would only be problem if your car's battery went dead.

[TubaRay]

There is a point which has not yet been raised. And that is:

41.749% of statistics are just made up from someone's imagination.

[ShoelessWes]

There is a point which has not yet been raised. And that is:

41.749% of statistics are just made up from someone's imagination.

Indeed, and NPR has been pretty good at making up stats about politics for quite some time.

[ShoelessWes]

PAINT your Yamaha YCB-826S tubas WHITE...

faux-fiberglass !

I thought that was supposed to be in the other thread

"Sneaking tubas in the country from Mexico or Canada"

[TubaRay]

There is a point which has not yet been raised. And that is:

41.749% of statistics are just made up from someone's imagination.

Indeed, and NPR has been pretty good at making up stats about politics for quite some time.

INDEED!