Vinegar, raw brass and salt

[Mister Stone]

I've been searching the forum for two hours and haven't found the answer. I seem to remember that using a mild salt solution in a vinegar/soap solution, will prevent (not fix) the leeching of zinc from the bras. Is this true?
Also, will a vinegar bath completely remove the ugly tarnish on the inner tubing of a raw brass tuba? My Carpal tunnel issues make polishing quite difficult. If it can remove lacquer, why not tarnish?
The horn has a detachable bell so I will be doing this in a 30 gallon rubbermaid trash can.

[TheHatTuba]

Is the tuba raw brass, or are you asking if the vinegar will hurt the lacquer?

[ghmerrill]

The only time I have used this mixture and process was to polish the brass hilt and scabbard of an 1872 US Army sabre. It works, but not without substantial effort. I don't believe that it would have any lasting effect on the brass. More contemporary brass polishes work much better if your primary goal is just polishing brass.

[iiipopes]

Primarily, what it does is clean gunk more easily. It can't hurt to try to clean the discoloration of inner tubes, but if they're inner tubes, why bother? http://www.versatilevinegar.org/usesandtips.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

[Mister Stone]

Mister Stone,
There are only about a dozen guys on this board who I would really trust with the chemistry question you ask about.
I am not one, but I can give you hope; If you have regular skin / saliva acidity, "dezincification" is a decades long process.
If you know that your skin or saliva IS acidic, and then have your horn checked by a professional. It can be stopped at the lead pipe in
most cases, if found soon enough.

Well, heck, a regular professional chem clean should take care of that. Thanks.

[SousaSaver]

A good chem clean and regular preventative maintenance can help you prevent dezincification. The most crucial area to worry about this is in the mouth pipe.

[Dan Schultz]

I had an old friend who used to put ketchup all over his old Eb Couesnon for an hour or so then wash it off with a garden hose. It removed the patina and left behind a nice satin finish. Apparently there is enough acid in the ketchup (tomatoes are citric). His horn smelled like a hamburger but usually looked pretty good!

Simply keeping a new horn clean will certainly slow down calcium deposits and retard dezincification. But... the leeching of the zinc out of the brass is a natural process that won't be eliminated completely by anything other than not alloying the copper with zinc in the first place.

[Mister Stone]

What is the purpose of the salt in the vinegar soap solution?

[iiipopes]

Apparently there is enough acid in the ketchup (tomatoes are citric).

Um, forgive me, but the primary ingredient in ketchup is vinegar, acetic acid.

What is the purpose of the salt in the vinegar soap solution?

http://www.chem.umn.edu/outreach/OutreachCard14.html" target="_blank
It turns the vinegar into hydrocloric acid and sodium acetate. Now, with this strong an acid, it will dissolve out the metal, not preserve it.

As I mentioned in a thread a couple of years ago, it is the solution of last resort before professional tank dipping to get rid of gunk. Then rinse, rinse, rinse...

[Dan Schultz]

Apparently there is enough acid in the ketchup (tomatoes are citric).

Um, forgive me, but the primary ingredient in ketchup is vinegar, acetic acid......

Don't know much about the ingredients in ketchup. But.... tomatoes ARE acidic.

BTW... the ketchup wash does work!

[Mister Stone]

Upon closer inspection, I think the dish soap and snake brush will work on the horn but I may need to soak the rotors in vinegar and brush them out real good. I greatly appreciate the input you've all given me.

[ghmerrill]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_ ... mato_sauce"

But they go so well with acetic acid, especially the Balsamic variety.

[iiipopes]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_ ... mato_sauce"

But they go so well with acetic acid, especially the Balsamic variety.

Yes, citric acid, usually in the form of lemon juice, is in tomato sauce, especially home-canned sauce, as a preservative:
http://extension.psu.edu/food-safety/fo ... g-tomatoes" target="_blank

The OP asked about vinegar, which is the primary ingredient in ketchup.

[UDELBR]

The OP asked about vinegar, which is the primary ingredient in ketchup.

Mmmm, the primary ingredient in ketchup is tomatoes. And (to answer an earlier question) the most abundant organic acid in tomatoes is citric acid, along with a lesser amount of malic acid.

[iiipopes]

The OP asked about vinegar, which is the primary ingredient in ketchup.

Mmmm, the primary ingredient in ketchup is tomatoes. And (to answer an earlier question) the most abundant organic acid in tomatoes is citric acid, along with a lesser amount of malic acid.

Thanks. Unlike a lot of other forums I've encountered, this is the best thing about TubeNet: being corrected in a "top of the table" manner; no aspersions, no character assassinations, etc. Just the facts. I stand corrected.