AW in 24AW Stands for?

[tubahero300]

ive always been curious as to what AW in the Bach 24AW stood for? Anyone know?

[Doug Elliott]

In the Bach numbering system, A means a very deep cup and W means a wide cushion rim. Which is exactly what a 24AW is.

[Kevin Hendrick]

You can download the Bach Mouthpiece Manual here:

http://www.bachbrass.com/mouthpieces/

[Ed Jones]

Awful Wide

[TubaRay]

Awful Wide

Or, at the very least: AWful. I know some like this mouthpiece. I am not one of them.

[Rick Denney]

Awful Wide

When I saw the thread title, I was thinking "awfully wide" rim. You beat me to it.

Rick "agreeing with Ray, based on experience of having endured one for several years as a stupid school kid" Denney

[sousaphone68]

I first came across a 24aw when the first chair player in the IYO was using one on his 981. I was 15 and was using a Denis Wick 5
I tried his 24aw for about an hour but did not like the sound or the lack of crispness in articulation. I was lazy and liked how easy it was for me to articulate on a DW.
Now that I am older I use the Besson,Yamaha and Kelly equivalents of a 24aw for my Sousa and sometimes for comfort.
I wish I had used a 24aw when I was younger because it would have forced me to develop proper foundations for articulation and range when I was younger.

Maybe some teachers can chime in and let us know why they insist on a 24aw.

In the forum that I learned to play Tuba my first mouthpiece was what ever lumpy hunk of junk that was in the case it was very rough and could cut you.
After about 2 months I put my hand in my pocket and bought a DW 5 for the worst reasons it was all the dealer had and it was in my price range.
Luckily it worked for me and I have stuck to them ever since trying different ones along the way but always returning to the DW shape.

[Wyvern]

The 24AW is one of the most popular mouthpieces in the UK and can contribute to a superb sound in the hands of a top professional. Just listen to recordings of Owen Slade, Patrick Harrild and the late John Jenkins for example.

[tubahero300]

So people say they are awful. other than the wide rim, what else is frowned upon with this mouthpiece

[Donn]

This is a good subject for the search function.

Select "Advanced search" more or less at the top of the page. Type in "24aw". Browse through a couple of pages. Try narrowing the search to one particular forum, using an extra keyword or two, etc.

Lots of good discussion on this mouthpiece over the years. Maybe the especially well informed will have time to check in here and repeat their thoughts, but odds are, the best stuff awaits those who search. (Also keep track of how people describe their 24AW - do they all seem to be talking about the same mouthpiece?)

[Wyvern]

So people say they are awful. other than the wide rim, what else is frowned upon with this mouthpiece

Like all mouthpiece it is all personal preferance. Just try the 24AW and see if works for you. That is all that matters. It is of little importance if others like, or not!

[Chris Olka]

"***-whoopin" when Warren Deck played one for most of his career...your mileage may vary...

[jeopardymaster]

I'm pretty sure the Wick 3L is identical to the Bach 24AW. Agree? Disagree?

[modelerdc]

Wick 3L is about the same size as the Bach 24AW but is not the same. The Wick has a completly different rim, narrower, flatter, with more bite. Also the Wick seems a little more open in feel when playing, but I don't have the tools to reliably check small differences in backbore, cup, etc.
I read somewhere that the the 24AW was developed for the Sousa band, a wide cushion rim for when they had to march, but a deep cup for strong bass sound in a band in which the tubas often played transcriptions of orchestral parts.
Usually looked down on by most serious tuba players in the US, remember that John Fletcher made wonderful music on it, as did Warren Deck as was posted above.
When I taught HS band the 24AW was a mixed blessing. The comfy rim rim of modest diameter was easy for the students to play, but I noticed an increase in clarity when I changed a few students to the Conn 7B
Not the regular Helleberg, as thats too large for some students. I think that if the student has trouble focusing the tone then the cushion rim does not help and accuarcy and articulation will suffer. Part of the compromise with this mouthpiece is that the comfy rim may make it feel larger than it is. The similar in size Wick 3L may feel smaller for some players.
Also the 24AW is pretty easy for some trombone players to double tuba.
MY take on the 24AW today: Most players use larger diameters today, making this mouthpiece seem dated. The round wide rim and deep cup are unforgiving if you can't center a tone. If you can and the relativly small size are right for you than it's possible to make a huge sound on this mouthpiece. The Deep cup does not suite all tubas. Great for stuffy souzas. I think of the 24AW as a rim that in todays terms is a good size for E flat tuba, but with a cup for that's deep enough for a Contra bass tuba. I like the sound of 24W a lot, with the regular cup depth, large throat, many students would sound better on it that the regualr 24AW. The Faxx 24AW has better definition in the riim than recent Bach Versions. Recently I purchased a plastic Kelly 24AW.
It's very interesting becuase it has the deep A cup but the rim is nothing like the Bach. The rim is narrower, but not to narrow, and has a good compromise between comfort and bite. So even though it's sold as a 24AW in Bach terms it's more like a 24A. At any rate I think it's even better than the original. Those who want a mouthpiece in the 24AW size, but who do not need a cushion rim should try it or the wick 3L. Now how can I get a 24W with the rim of the Kelly?

[iiipopes]

Now how can I get a 24W with the rim of the Kelly?

Call Jim at Kanstul. They have everything in their database and will CNC make it for you.

[toobagrowl]

"***-whoopin" when Warren Deck played one for most of his career...your mileage may vary...

I always thought Deck used his own assortment of (huge) mpcs?

[jonesbrass]

Absolute Worst mouthpiece Bach could come up with. . .

[modelerdc]

Now how can I get a 24W with the rim of the Kelly?

Call Jim at Kanstul. They have everything in their database and will CNC make it for you.

Have any Idea of the what it would cost to have such a mpc made at Kanstul?

Thank you.

[Lee Stofer]

I may be wrong, but I thought I'd long ago heard the story that Bach originally made the 24AW for the US Army Band, Pershings's Own, for the tubas to use for the Inaugural Parades. With a large number of sousaphones, no one had to play particularly loudly, and the idea was to protect the chops of the players, some of them borrowed from the Concert Band, with a very cushioned rim, and have a nice rich sound with an A (deep) cup. It is not my favorite mouthpiece, but I've known of fine players with smaller lips than mine who sounded really great with this mouthpiece.

[iiipopes]

Now how can I get a 24W with the rim of the Kelly?

Call Jim at Kanstul. They have everything in their database and will CNC make it for you.

Have any Idea of the what it would cost to have such a mpc made at Kanstul?
Thank you.

To get more projecton for my recording bell, I wanted an 18-style mouthpiece, but in my preferred cup diameter, and smaller throat than a standard Bach 18. Jim took their "standard" 18-clone (which has the .328 throat and moderate backbore instead of the larger "stock" Bach 18 throat and backbore), widened the cup to 1.28 instead of 1.26, and put a Mt Vernon 18 rim on it for @$150, but that was a couple of years ago. Count on inflation. By comparison, to have "designed it from scratch" would have been @$300. In looking at their website, they have a 24AW clone as well, and it's not a big deal to change rims.
http://kanstul.com/mouthpiece.php?PmIns ... ne%20Piece" target="_blank" target="_blank

Now, if you like the 24AW otherwise, and only want the rim turned down, Vladimir at Dillon turned down my Curry 128D rim, which was wide like a Bach W rim, (it literally bumped my nose and I couldn't keep it centered on my embouchure - it kept riding down) again, for me, to a Bach 18 Mt Vernon rim, and was very reasonable on the charge, since I purchased the mouthpiece from Matt as well, but I don't remember the upcharge of the turning of the rim and replating it. It might be that you could simply send him your favorite mouthpiece and have him do the work, so you can keep the playability and "feel" that you like.

In the meantime, there are a lot, and I mean a lot of other mouthpieces out there. I came to my three primary mouthpieces (Curry with the turned rim, Kanstul semi-custom, and my Lexan Kelly 18 for inclement weather) after trying literally scores (pun again intended) of mouthpieces, and getting the recommendation of the Curry from Matt after a frank discussion of my horn and my playing, both good points and weak points.

Here's a great comparison chart so you can start with your 24AW and see if there is anything in the vicinity before you go dropping $$ on customization:
http://www.allbrassradio.com/tubampccharts.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank