Are you a tenor, baritone, or bass?

[Dylan King]

Over the years my voice has lowered in pitch, which I know is common in men. I can now sing the F below the staff quite well, where twenty years ago I could only sing down to a very quiet Bb. I think that as my voice has naturally lowered pitch, my ear has become more adept at hearing the low register on the tuba, and my low register playing has improved over time. This may be from practice and experience, but I also think there is an element of the ear developing with the aging of the throat.

Has anyone else noticed this?

It also got me thinking. Are baritone and bass singers more prone to choose the tuba as an instrument over higher pitched men? Does vocal range play a factor (perhaps sub-consciously) in less women choosing the tuba as their primary instrument? Hence the poll.

[OldsRecording]

If anything, my range has gotten higher. In high school, I had a solid low E natural. Nowadays, I can manage a low G on a good day. Actually, lately, I've been singing tenor in church.

[rodgeman]

I don't sing. I play the tuba.

[bearphonium]

There is a reason I play the tuba and don't sing...much. I do sing "bass" in a women's choir occasionally, and can hit and hold the C below middle C on a good day. Did I mention there is a reason I play the tuba?

Kind of an off the track wondering here: I have a god-awful time "singing" my tuning note (Bb) and then playing it (BBb). I suspect that it is just me and my lack of pitch, but wondering if other woman tuba players have this issue...

[GC]

basso less than profundo

I sometimes have to sing low tenor with a combo, but it's not comfortable for me or the listener.

[Donn]

I read that bass voice is supposed to have a "comfortable range" through the bass clef, which seems reasonable. I can go a ways under that, but the volume and quality drops off a lot. What I could never figure is why the choral parts ran the basses up into the treble clef. Excuse me, could we go over that part about comfortable range again?

[imperialbari]

viewtopic.php?p=74600#p74600

[finnbogi]

I read that bass voice is supposed to have a "comfortable range" through the bass clef, which seems reasonable. I can go a ways under that, but the volume and quality drops off a lot. What I could never figure is why the choral parts ran the basses up into the treble clef. Excuse me, could we go over that part about comfortable range again?

Some composers are apparently not interested in the comfortable range. A few years ago I sang 1. bass/baritone in Poulenc's Mass in G, which is a great piece but very tough on the voices. The range of the 1. bass part is from the E below the bass clef up to G sharp in the treble clef, which we had to hit several times. At least once, the 1. bass was actually the second highest pitched voice in the piece (2. soprano, both alto and both tenor voices lie below the 1. bass). I can't imagine why Poulenc wrote like this, but it certainly sounds nice when you're sitting in the audience.

[Lee Stofer]

Something else - I am a bass, but was not always, and did not start as a tenor. Growing up in the Church, I probably could say I started as a soprano, and as I was taking piano lessons in the 4th grade, started figuring out alto lines in hymns. Within a couple of years, my voice started changing quickly, and I went to bass, and have never had much involvement with tenor parts. In college, my voice instructor used me as a guinea pig in an ed. class, demonstrating how to audition a person to determine their vocal range. He certified me as having a 2-octave range from Db below the staff to the Db adjacent to middle C. I remember that he had the class take note of how my sound and resonanace started to change at the A at the top of the staff, which is generally the top of my comfort zone.

Vocal resonance and brass instrument resonance are both profoundly affected by one's sinus cavities, and I believe that I was designed for low pitches. If I had been a smoker, I think I could have sung Russian bass parts, but then I could have been dead by now, too.

[Donn]

I can't imagine why Poulenc wrote like this, but it certainly sounds nice when you're sitting in the audience.

It sounds like you have imagined one possible explanation. In my case, however, I can't imagine anyone would use the word "nice" about me singing in the treble clef.

Vocal resonance and brass instrument resonance are both profoundly affected by one's sinus cavities, and I believe that I was designed for low pitches.

That's interesting, seems germane to Dylan's hypothesis. (But what if it turned out that string bass players are bass singers too, in similar proportion?) Conversely, my voice is in the low bass range, but I don't get, and probably could never get, a satisfactory bass tone quality for classical solo performance, just too skinny or whatever. This would affect my tuba sound also? What about women?

[eupher61]

As most who have heard me sing will attest, I'm a barely-tone. And proud of it.

[Tuba-G Bass]

I sing Bass in my church choir,
I think it is also what part you listen to in music,
I have always listened to the Bass line,
if you always listen to the
melody, than Trumpet might be for you!

[k001k47]

I'm a bassortone

[Frank Ortega]

I am a Baritone. I have sung professionally for about fifteen years. Than I became a Marching Band/middle school band director, which has wreaked havok on my singing voice.

However, I think a discussion on your natural singing voice vs. your chosen instrument of study is a topic worth expanding on.

While in HS, I had a difficult time reading the choral parts as written. As a matter of fact I joined and quit several times. No one informed me of the disparity in octaves, so I could only audiate well with tuba music, not Bass choral music. I find this problem in many of my students, on many different types of instruments. For instance, I have trumpet players who have a hard time reading C treble and Saxes with the same problem. Some vocal teachers just write these students off as not being able to audiate because, they hear Eb as C or Bb as C. Of course, the more aware you make your students of these disparities, the more succesful they will be at switching gears.

To expand even further, I have found that playing with a singers technique, is quite beneficial to tone color and upper range flexibility and placement. And this goes for all students, woodwind and brass! I'm not talking about the breath only, I'm also talking about lifting the soft pallet upon inhilation and maintaining that oral position while playing. I studied voice with a wonderful teacher for about 10 years. Her name was Marian Thompson, and she taught at the Mannes College of Music. I was fortunate enough to date her daughter for a short time in HS, and she proceded to teach me free of charge for the next 10 years! In exchange, she would ask me to perform at the Mannes Summer Opera Workshop that she ran. And learning roles like Figaro, Don Giovanni, and Mephistopheles, made it a win-win. Unforunately, in my youth I had a tuba teacher who told me NOT to play the way I sing, or keep the pallet closed. Perhaps I had air escaping my nasal cavities, or he had experienced that, I'm not quite sure, but, I think this opposite approach caused undo stress and strain in the high register and a duller sound quality.

As Brass players we've heard the story of sing and play many, many times. But I think if we play, with great singing technique, the benefits are tenfold. And I'm pretty sure that Mr. Jacobs would agree.

I will now descend from my soap box. Gentlemen, start your flame throwers.


Frank

[PMeuph]

It also got me thinking. Are baritone and bass singers more prone to choose the tuba as an instrument over higher pitched men? Does vocal range play a factor (perhaps sub-consciously) in less women choosing the tuba as their primary instrument? Hence the poll.

I will chime in what I see as a potential problem with your hypothesis. While I fully endorse the benefits of singing for playing, I wonder for how many people here this is really relevant. I started playing the Euphonium in grade 7. As a 12 year old, my voice had not completely dropped yet. ( I think this is about typical of 12 year olds, and many people begin band programs in grade 6 or 7) (FWIW, I actually wanted to play the tuba but here were two kids who wanted the tuba and only one tuba, I ended up with the euphonium)

The next problem I have with you theory is the problem of not knowing one's vocal capacities very well without training. I had never sung in a choir before I was 18 and at first my range was from Bb(in the bass clef) to D(1 ledger line above). After a couple lessons and some additional technique here and there, I figured out I was more comfortable singing from d(in the staff) to f(2 ledger lines above the BC). If I had not taken some vocal technique, I would have answered Bass, but in reality I am more of a bass-baritone. That said, I have sung most male parts in a choir (i.e. tenor1, tenor 2, Baritone, Bass).

One last point, which should be considered, is the range of the talking voice. Since most of the people who start tuba are not singers beforehand, wouldn't it make sense that they are more accustomed to their talking voice than their singing voice?

[Frank Ortega]

It is important to have young players sing their parts where their natural voice lies and than compare it to the sound on their instrument. No 10-12 yr old boy can sing true bass notes. Usually they can sing as a boy alto or soprano, even though they may feel embarrassed about it. I ALWAYS sing in falsetto with my younger students and this helps them to bridge the octave displacement and developes healthy, strong audiation.

Very few students are taught to sing with good technique, or speak with good technique for that matter. Lifting the soft pallet only involves the same motion as begining to yawn. It is my understanding that opera singers speak this way so that the muscle memory continues all the time. I was even told that Mr. Jacobs would on occassion get down on himself for not speaking resonantly enough, all the time. That's maintaining the position of the soft pallet! And I do believe that it transfered to his playing marvelously!

Thanks for listening.