Initial impressions of prototype Gemeinhardt Piston CC-WOW!

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Just got the prototype silver Gemeinhardt CC 4 piston, 1 dependent rotor tuba this afternoon. I will have it for 2 weeks before returning it. This is the final prototype--the production model will be available in 2-3 months(?).

WOW--What a super horn! Just playing it here at home, and not in a Hall, I can't yet appreciate what the tuba can fully do, but I can say that the dependent 5th valve really shines on a CC tuba. It reminds me just how powerful in the low register great CC's 4 valve horns can be---just like a great vintage Alex or a '60's Mirafone 186 4v. And you 'get your cake and can eat it too' for using the dependent rotor for low intonation issues.

The horn slots so nicely, the pitch is just fantastic, it sings up high, & it is so easy to play--initially, it is easy to play like a 3/4, but seems to have the robust sound of a 5/4.

The piston valves are great. I sure don't miss an independent 5th valve. The horn's sound reminds me so much of a cross between a Thor I played a few years back and an original 4/4 York CC a friend of mine has in Canada.

Pic of the horn--as play tested by Don Harry a while back:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1095046074 ... 0464046306" target="_blank

There are so many fine piston 4/4-5/4 CC's today available to choose from (1293, Thor, PT-6P, 995, Gnagey's, 3450, etc.)--but so far, this horn IMHO is at the top. Of course, we'll have to see how this horn is in a large Hall with an Orchestra and how consistent the production models are to the prototype (Note: If the consistency of the Gemeinhardt F's are any indication, the production CC's will be a 'mirror' of the prototype). So far, I can't find any faults with this tuba. Dick Barth has done it again and has worked hard to get it right.

I'll give my impressions of this horn in a large Hall with an Orchestra next week. So far, so very, very good!

My 2 cents.....

Regards-
Mark

P.S. BTW, Some other tubas in R&D at Gemeinhardt in the works...much more to come!!

[tofu]

Hi-

https://picasaweb.google.com/1095046074 ... 0464046306" target="_blank" target="_blank


Regards-
Mark

In your photo link above one of the photos is labeled "Don with his monster Lyon&Healy". That horn looks awesome and HUGE. Can you tell us anything about it?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
The L&H was bought by Mile Lynch and is a Matt Walters creation--a magnificent CC 6/4 tuba that Matt made and it plays like a dream.
Mark

[ginnboonmiller]

So, how has this Barth fellow been doing in terms of finding dealers? I'm deeply curious about the F model and I'd love to try one out without facing a convention of tuba players.

[bort]

Hi-
The L&H was bought by Mile Lynch and is a Matt Walters creation--a magnificent CC 6/4 tuba that Matt made and it plays like a dream.
Mark

Looks like an absolute nightmare to hold it though!

[bisontuba]

It's called 'Why tuba stands were invented'........

Mark

[bort]

I thought it was called "why only one of these exists."

[bisontuba]

Hi-
In the house, I think(?) this is superior, but I will wait until I use it in the Music Hall next week before I answer that definitely......

Regards-
Mark

[bwtuba]

So I am trying to wrap my head around this "dependent" fifth valve. Assuming that it means the 4th must be used in conjunction with the 5th, how do you play low F#? 2 and 4? That is incredibly sharp on most all tubas I have played and not easily adjustable by where most tuba maker's place their slides. Is this horn any different? Most people I know play that note 2-3-5 which wouldn't work on this horn.

I can appreciate that a lot of our famous tuba predecessors played great stuff on 4 valve tubas, but I assume Mr. Barth isn't interested in only selling horns to the next Fletcher, Bobo, Jacobs, etc.

I understand the desire to keep a 5th valve out of the open wrap. One of the best tubas I ever played was a Hirsbrunner HB1P(?) - it had the loop in the leadpipe like an HB2P but no fifth valve. It would be the only horn I own today if I never had to play below a low G.

I suppose all horn design is about compromise. No horn has yet to be made with perfect intonation and slotting and sound. Some horns give up certain things for others - a conscience compromise on the part of the designer / artist. Just wondering what those of you who have played this horn think about it...

[Bob Kolada]

I can handle a 4 valve horn down low, but I didn't like the dependent valve on the F and Eb.

[T. J. Ricer]

I thought it was called "why only one of these exists."

I wish a few more of these (the Lyon and Healy) existed; Don sounds tremendous on it! If the new Matt Walters 6/4 at Dillon takes the best of what he put into this horn, then it is surely a beast!

--T. J.

[ShoelessWes]

I understand that trombone players like the idea of not distorting the main bore of their instruments with bore-crimping valves (as "valves" really are not the main features of their instruments), but tubas already have several valves.

In some other settings, it has been pointed out that this is a notable difference between conical and cylindrical instruments. In cylindrical instruments, there is a very large change in instrument timbre when anything is distorted or unnatural within the instrument. In conical instruments, the effect seems more insignificant.

I have no idea if this is really the case, or if there is data that attests to this, but it sounds plausible to me.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
The CC Gemeinhardt final prototype has had a LOT of tweaking done to it since last year. The production models will be made in China. The prototype CC is great, and if the production model is a mirror copy, it will be amazing, just like the production model F tuba! Stay tuned.........
And yes, the low F# is fine and in tune using 2-4 and the low E is fine and in tune using 2-4-5.

Regards-
Mark

[bort]

Does Gemeinhardt plan to manufacture any tubas in the US? Not trying to start that whole thing, just curious (some of the wording to this point makes me think there has been work.done in the US to this point). Plus, its interesting to hear "great", not "great for the price."

[Juggernaut04]

Does Gemeinhardt plan to manufacture any tubas in the US? Not trying to start that whole thing, just curious (some of the wording to this point makes me think there has been work.done in the US to this point). Plus, its interesting to hear "great", not "great for the price."

+1

[bort]

Sneaky! Heck, I don't even mind if it's made in China, just make it easy to know for sure. Even the stoopid "designed in ___, manufactured in ___" lines are better than that!

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Finally got a chance to play the horn at a rehearsal today with Bflo. Phil. In their music hall. This horn is nothing short of incredible in a large concert hall! It has such a glorious sound, and is so clear at very soft levels and it is nearly impossible to break up the sound when pressing the 'pedal to the metal' at the loudest dynamics. The horn works and sounds better than I thought it would in a large hall with an orchestra--I can't wait for the production version to become available.
A definite two thumbs up for the work Dick Barth did on refining this instrument into the current final prototype model. Along with their production F tuba, they will have a 'dynamic duo' with the Gemeinhardt CC and F tubas.
I'll have the prototype CC back to Dick for the Ohio Educators show next week in Columbus for folks to try out, but in the meantime, I am in 7th heaven using the CC this week-a wonderful tuba ( & also having fun as always playing next to Don Harry, who as always sounds amazing!!).

Regards-
Mark

[bisontuba]

Hi-
The F Joe played in Texas is the production model-Don and I now each own one. We will use them in 2 weeks on a BPO concert(s).
The CC is the final prototype (production models coming very shortly) & is not in Texas, but is at this moment on my lap and will be used by me in about an hour at a BPO concert with Don on his L&H-Matt Walters CC....

Both the production F and the prototype CC tubas are terrific....

Mark

[bort]

Was this designed in the US or China? I had been under the impression that it was just the manufacturing that was sent overseas. Am I wrong?

[bisontuba]

Hi-
The tubas are designed here in the US in Elkhart.

The production is then done overseas.

Mark

PS. The final CC prototype and the production F and Eb tubas will be at the Ohio Music Educators show this Thursday thru Saturday with Dick Barth at the Gemeinhardt booth in Columbus Ohio at their Convention Center. Check them out!!