B&H Imperial, the search for the valve!

[Sharp]

Hi folks,

A few years ago a friend of mine gave me an old Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Eb as a gift (read: his wife evicted it unto my possession).

The horn had not been played in years, and has since accumulated a wealth of dust. Until recently I had forgotten about it, but now I would like get it cleaned up and back into working order. The issue is that the fourth valve is gone, and I'm not sure where to find a replacement.

All I know about the horn is that it is an Boosey & Hakes Imperial Eb tuba. According to this website and the serial number on the instrument (142xxx), it dates back to 1933-34. Aside from the fact it is an Imperial, I don't know a specific model number or if there even is one, I'm hoping this is useful information towards finding a 4th valve.

I've contacted Windcraft (http://www.windcraft.co.uk) as they have valves for older Imperials listed. As it's the weekend I'll have to wait to hear back from them - but I am hopeful that someone in this community may be able to give some advice.

So, any ideas as to where I should look to for a replacement 4th valve for a 79 year old Eb tuba?

Edit: failed to clarify - any places in North America where I should look to find such a thing?

Thanks for any help

[Dan Schultz]

There are no sources in the US that I know of.

Windcraft just might be your best shot. Wait them out and see if they offer any advice.

If they don't come through...

Jim Pagington at jp.brass@lineone.net" target="_blank or perhaps mike-johnson@o2.co.uk" target="_blank

Finding one in a 'bone pile' in the UK might be your only shot.

[Sharp]

Thanks for the quick reply and contacts. Here's hoping I don't have to go through a "bone pile"!

Cheers

[PMeuph]

I have purchased several euphoniums dating from approximately the same period from this guy on ebay.

http://myworld.ebay.ca/phils-historic-i ... 1543.l2533" target="_blank

He regularly has old horns and beaters and I think he also has some spare parts once in a while. Probably not the best place to look, but it's surely worth a shot to send him an e-mail and ask if he has any spare parts.

[iiipopes]

Mark Carter, a/k/a "Mr. Tuba" in wales might be of help:
http://www.netupandgo.com/mrtuba/" target="_blank

[Sharp]

Thank you both, I will contact these people and see if I can get any leads.

Cheers

[J.c. Sherman]

You might have an easier time replacing the casing and valve, or having the 4th converted to a rotor.

My $.02 Great tubas - would love to play around with on in that condition to play with a conversion >: )

[imperialbari]

My 1923 Boosey F 3+1 comper and my 199 Besson 981 Eb 3+1 comper have very similar valve blocks. Main difference is that the 1 valve comp loop is wrapped to the left, not down. Valve slides would be exchangeable if it weren’t for the different length and and tiny differences in the alignment. The pistons cannot be exchanged because the old one has had its pistons plated.

As I see it any British made non-steel 4th piston for an Eb comper would be useable. The piston and the casing will have to be fitted together and that might take a replating with the needed honing.

If you haven’t specific ergonomic problems with using the side piston, then the change to a rotor basically would be therapy for a repairman and nothing more.

If a rotor should be applied, then it only would make sense musically, if it was to be activated by the right thumb. That would allow the left hand to manipulate slaide lengths on the fly.

Klaus

[iiipopes]

Now, wait a minute: unless you get one of Hirsbrunner's double-deck rotors, how are you going to plumb the comp circuits with a single rotary valve? Not going to happen. Imperialbari is correct.

[imperialbari]

The shift valve, which is the 4th in 3+1 systems and the 3rd in 3 valve systems, only has to be a single layer rotor or a normal short 6 hole piston. With the 3TP comp system that I have seen, the 3rd piston is full length, but still only has 6 holes. For nitpickers that is 3 airways through resulting in 6 openings. It is not the shift valve that makes an instrument compensating. Rather it is what happens within the 4th and 3rd loops respectively.

Those knowing double horns like the Conn’s 8D and 28D will say that their shift valves have two layers. This is true, but then each layer only has one air passage.

Klaus

[J.c. Sherman]

A full double instrument would a) need the change valve before the main block and b) need a 6-port rotor. The Imperial is a compensating double, therefore only 4 ports are needed.

These don't need valve slides pulled on the fly - their intonation is fabulous!

J.c.S.

[Sharp]

Not only have these been helpful in finding what I need, but in the past few posts I've been made to think more about what is actually 'going on' in the instrument.

Thanks Klaus for answering a question I had on my mind regarding a 'newer' model and having interchangeable pistons. I tracked down a piston that should work from Windcraft with the help of Paul Gardner.