Preferred Fingerings??

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:20 am

What's the most common fingering for low C, C#, and D?? I'm talking about the ones five or six ledger lines below the bass clef staff.

For four and five valved tubas.

TheHatTuba · Post by **TheHatTuba** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:47 am

What key of tuba?

arminhachmer · Post by **arminhachmer** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:08 pm

Hey Dan: Does circus music go that low for tuba?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:38 pm

On my BBb Miraphone you made the tuning slide for, for D below open BBb, I use 234; Db pull 134; C really pull 1234; B nat just isn't there, either with all 4 valves pulled or as a "false pedal" 23, I think because with the different bell and different tuning slide the nodes are now in the wrong places for it to resonate.

For everybody else who is thinking, "pull 4," remember that on the BBb version of a 186, the 4th circuit is tucked up inside the bugle where it can't be pulled that much, and the slide legs are only about 2 1/2 inches long each so you can withdraw the slide when necessary to grease it and empty trapped condensation.

Bob Kolada · Post by **Bob Kolada** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:29 pm

187 (decent fourth slide pull)-
D-234
Db-134 pull
C-1234 pull
B-no real false tones, 1234 and pull everything

56J (bleh)-
E-234
Eb-5
D-52
Db-51, ok as 51234

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:09 pm

Yeah.... sorry. I meant BBb.

Thanks, CK

MartyNeilan · Post by **MartyNeilan** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:11 pm

Between false tones, mouthpiece variables, player variables, slide lengths....
There are just way too many unknowns.
There is an awful lot of pitch flexibility down there.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:47 pm

MartyNeilan wrote:
Between false tones, mouthpiece variables, player variables, slide lengths....
There are just way too many unknowns.
There is an awful lot of pitch flexibility down there.

Dang! Where'd you get my tuner?

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:15 am

MartyNeilan wrote:
Between false tones, mouthpiece variables, player variables, slide lengths....
There are just way too many unknowns.
There is an awful lot of pitch flexibility down there.

My (so far) absolute all-time favorite tuner. Cheap. Reliable. Accurate. I have several: one in my tuba case, one in my double bass case, one in my bass guitar case, a couple more in various guitar cases, etc.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:26 am

bloke wrote:Dan,

You can figure these out fairly easily by trying out pitches (with different multi-valve combinations) an octave higher. Usually, the octave-higher-sounding pitches do not "misrepresent" very much.

Yup. We've pretty much got it figured out. One of our contest pieces for NABBA as A BUNCH of low Db's... a real problem to try to get two tubas to do with any uniformity. At least it is for use, anyway. I'll be using my Miraphone 1291 5V BBb while my partner is playing a big gold-brass Cerveny. The different timbres makes things difficult enough without having to go down to the low 'fart noises'. I think we'll just take turns playing those notes as breathing is a big problem, anyway!

Bob Kolada · Post by **Bob Kolada** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:45 am

Try that note on 1 or 5, only. I recall 1291's to be pretty banging down there on those notes (Wes? Finlandia?

).

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:11 am

Low Db's? Seriously: have one guy play a "regular" 2nd ledger space Db with the usual 23 fingering in tune, and one guy the octave "near pedal" lower Db. By having both octaves and stacking up the overtones, the low guy will not only have something to key onto to tune (with a BBb tuba, probably pull 134 or slight pull 534 if it is a 5-valve BBb), but also by aligning the overtones, it will actually reinforce that near-pedal fundamental, and sound much fuller than if both of you try to play the near-pedal Db together.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:23 am

iiipopes wrote:Low Db's? Seriously: have one guy play a "regular" 2nd ledger space Db with the usual 23 fingering in tune, and one guy the octave "near pedal" lower Db. By having both octaves and stacking up the overtones, the low guy will not only have something to key onto to tune (with a BBb tuba, probably pull 134 or slight pull 534 if it is a 5-valve BBb), but also by aligning the overtones, it will actually reinforce that near-pedal fundamental, and sound much fuller than if both of you try to play the near-pedal Db together.

We've thought about that. But... with competitive brass bands, the judges have the scores. If there is a low Db, they want to hear it... NOT the octave up. It's very difficult for two tubas to get that note in tune so we've declared that it's actually better if only one of us plays. In cases where that low stuff is sustained... we sometimes just take turns.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 10:24 am

iiipopes wrote:Low Db's? Seriously: have one guy play a "regular" 2nd ledger space Db with the usual 23 fingering in tune, and one guy the octave "near pedal" lower Db. By having both octaves and stacking up the overtones, the low guy will not only have something to key onto to tune (with a BBb tuba, probably pull 134 or slight pull 534 if it is a 5-valve BBb), but also by aligning the overtones, it will actually reinforce that near-pedal fundamental, and sound much fuller than if both of you try to play the near-pedal Db together.

We've thought about that. But... with competitive brass bands, the judges have the scores. If there is a low Db, they want to hear it... NOT the octave up. It's very difficult for two tubas to get that note in tune so we've declared that it's actually better if only one of us plays. In cases where that low stuff is sustained... we sometimes just take turns.

We don't want to come home this year with a 2nd place because a judge is 'picky'.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:16 pm

If the top octave is played a dynamic level or two softer and the guy on the near-pedal Db plays just a tad louder, the judges won't hear it. The great organ builder Cavaille-Coll built his larger organs with several 16' (sub-octave) pedal stops, but usually only a single mf 8' open register for this very reason. You couldn't hear the 8' by itself, but it made the 16' stops sound more grand and foundational, exactly what you're trying to achieve in brass band.

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:46 pm

iiipopes wrote:If the top octave is played a dynamic level or two softer and the guy on the near-pedal Db plays just a tad louder, the judges won't hear it. ....

Don't bet on it! Besides... if it isn't heard... what's the point?

Seriously... often the judge will be the guy who wrote the piece. He WILL know if someone is trying to fool him.

bort · Post by **bort** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:53 am

Dan... what's the piece?

Bob Kolada · Post by **Bob Kolada** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:29 pm

The argument about low notes is never the same add low notes. "Gotta play the high notes, but you can take that pedal Z up an octave; it doesn't matter."

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:22 pm

bort wrote:Dan... what's the piece?

"Four Spanish Impressions" - 4th movement "Santiago di Compostella"

Also have some low 'D's' in "Jubilus!"

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