the schiller American Heritage 6 Valve Rotary F Tuba

[Wyvern]

... If someone has solved the intonation problems of that F, then congratulations to them!...

Jonathan, have you discussed with the factory about the intonation problem? I remember in some earlier thread that you mentioned playing a couple of those instruments both bad and good ones, in China.
And the 'upgraded' one is also mentioned here and there. So if it is just to change the lead pipe for the intonation to be better, then maybe the modification could be available as a spare part for the older horns and standard or at least as an option for the newer ones as the instruments seems to be OK in all other aspects? Other brands may improve over time and I suppose JB are interested in that too?! It would be nice to have a full grown good working F rather than just the Bubbie to choose from...

A little off topic I can assure you that my old JB alto trombone and the CB trbn, that both played fine right out of the box, are also improved by putting in other lead pipes.

Anyone here that have compared the 'upgraded' F with the unmodified thoroughly and would be willing to share the experiences with TN?

I doubt if JinBao would share the individual modifications of another dealer, but may ask. My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Jonathan "who has just been successfully visiting the Chinese factories this last week"

[MikeMason]

If the mythical "lead pipe fix" exists,I'll take one...

[ghmerrill]

My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Jonathan "who has just been successfully visiting the Chinese factories this last week"

Something along the lines of the Cerveny Arion baby would be really nice -- at least from my perspective.

[Dan Schultz]

Hey Dan,

On that... do you think (or know) that it's some manufacturers more than others? If I'm remembering correctly, in "Tuba" Joe Exley's blog about his visit to the Miraphone factory, he mentioned something about talking to them about manufacturing, and they said that everything is always made right there in Germany. I would also expect that from the boutique manufacturers like Alexander, Rudy Meinl, Thein, etc.

Then again, German companies make many instruments other than just tubas, and much more than just high-end ones as well.

Actually... I don't care where parts, sub-assemblies, or finished products come from as long as the name on the item takes responsibility for the quality within.

[Bob Kolada]

Funny how fans of such would attack honest appraisals of this instrument earlier, and then later attack it in force....
Correction, it's actually quite annoying.

[Lingon]

...

... If someone has solved the intonation problems of that F, then congratulations to them!...

...Jonathan, have you discussed with the factory about the intonation problem? I remember in some earlier thread that you mentioned playing a couple of those instruments both bad and good ones, in China...

I doubt if JinBao would share the individual modifications of another dealer, but may ask. My focus is however more on developing a new 'better' F tuba, amongst other models...

Well, that's fair and of course if MM have worked out something then other could try to do the same or try to license the thing, for that matter, if it is solves the problems? That is maybe about communication? MM that has told us he is a parts supplier for the JB instruments would maybe sell the modded pipe as an accessory to those interested and thus solve the bad reputation of the JB F's intonation? I remember the lyric talk about this instrument when it struck the market...

So, if the problems could be solved with a leadpipe switch then it would be interesting for you and your colleagues to work together to develop such a thing? Or have some independent party work on it? I do not know how these things work in the tuba world but for trombones there are many alternatives to get from more than one source. For example Kanstul makes, amongst other things, a lot of trombone lead pipes. I have an English Mick Rath pipe in my Bach 42 that works very fine. So if there is interest in having the JB600 working why not try to develop a pipe that works, if it is only about the leadpipe? That could also be sold as an option with or without the instrument and thus the already in use JB600s could be bettered and with the perspective of your intentions to get a new model born then also give even more alternatives for the potential buyer. As far as I understand there are good things about the 600 but not good intonation. Fix the intonation and it would be a good instrument? Or just scrap the model?

Jonathan, do not misinterpret my ramblings, It would surely be interesting to get news about a newly developed F-tuba too. Too many tubas are not enough as we all know. But, if the JB would improve on their exisisting models, giving the current users options then they may eventually be seen in another light, and not the usual just make quick money perspective?

Did you have a pleasant trip to China?

Anyone here that have compared MMs 'upgraded' F with the unmodified thoroughly and would be willing to share the experiences with TN? Or can tell us something about the not so cheap Thein F tuba and intonation?

[Wyvern]

John, Having heard in this thread (and by PM) that an JBFB-600 with improved intonation is real, I have already taken moves to find out if it is available to sell this side of the pond. Will see what response I get.

If I manage to secure some, I will announce

[MikeMason]

i've used mine on corsair twice.the final product was just fine.it did take some extra time figuring out fingerings and writing up and down arrows in the part.I'd pay a nice chunk for a magic leadpipe.still believe the horn to be well worth what i paid.I won't keep it forever as is...

[MikeMason]

It's still a useable f tuba for tiny money,if ur willing to do the work.yes,the honeymoon is over and she ain't quite as cute

[Wyvern]

I am informed by JInBao that they only manufacture one model of the JBFB-600, so if there is an improved version, those improvements must be made post production.

Mike, maybe worth you contacting M&M and see if you can buy the improvement kit to upgrade your existing tuba!

[modelerdc]

Is it possible that any improvements have been made to this model, and have been added by the factory to ongoing production? Does anyone know if M&M adds any imporvments themselves, and if so what does this consist of? Any actual hardward changes, such as different leadpipe and such, or perhaps just a few tweaks like vavle alignent, gap adjustment or what?

[tubahero300]

i have heard that one thing that they add is a gold brass lead pipe, that is one thing that i know

[Bob Kolada]

' seems to me that someone who might want to mess around and make one of those valve F contrabass trombone things ("cimbasso") could pick one of these up and use the valveset for parts. The 3/4" bore might be too large, though...??

Such an instrument would seem to fall into one of two categories- non sliding slide tuba, or valved contra trombone that sounds like a BASS trombone and only has about one useful octave. Here's hoping my .562 Eb works out!

[Wyvern]

' seems to me that someone who might want to mess around and make one of those valve F contrabass trombone things ("cimbasso") could pick one of these up and use the valveset for parts. The 3/4" bore might be too large, though...??

I did think the same thing, but also concluded the bore is just too large

[Bob Kolada]

How about that valve set on a 981 body?

[k001k47]

I'd like to give you my opinion.

[michaelkeys]

I bought a upgraded 6 valve m&m. The F is still way to high. You have to play it using 23 to get it right. (And the lower F is to flat)

[k001k47]

I bought a upgraded 6 valve m&m. The F is still way to high. You have to play it using 23 to get it right. (And the lower F is to flat)

Keep messing with slides and buttons. You'll get it right. I believe in you.

[Lectron]

I bought a upgraded 6 valve m&m. The F is still way to high. You have to play it using 23 to get it right. (And the lower F is to flat)

I'm shocked!
Who would have believed that!

[Lingon]

I bought a upgraded 6 valve m&m. The F is still way to high. You have to play it using 23 to get it right. (And the lower F is to flat)

Interesting, but please enlighten us if you happen to know what is upgraded and in which way it does manifest itself in the instruments behavior, better or worse than the unupgraded version?