another Tuba stand question

[ppalan]

I finally tried a friends tuba rest (DEG) and it actually seemed to work ok for me. I've found 3 versions K&M, DEG and BBC. The K&M is more money than I want to pay. I've only seen the picture of the BBC on their web page. Aside from price, is there any real difference between the DEG and BBC?

As always, thanks in advance for any info you guys can provide.
Pete

[Mark]

Yes,

The BBC stand is more sturdy and has a much better build quality.

[TubaRay]

Yes,
The BBC stand is more sturdy and has a much better build quality.

Ditto that!

[Roger Lewis]

The BBC stand is very well designed and the legs lay flat on the floor (almost). It is also a lot sturdier than the DEG which will not support my Yorkbrunner. It folds up nicely. Though heavier, there is no question in my mind as to which one to buy. I own 2 of them - one for the car and one for the home studio.

With the K&M I always worried about tripping over the legs when moving around because it has such a wide stance. Also, for some chairs, it does not go low enough and needs to be modified.

You can also scare the hell out of your section mates when unfolding the legs as it sounds like you are chambering a round into an M16.

Just my $0.02.

Roger

[Rick Denney]

You can also scare the hell out of your section mates when unfolding the legs as it sounds like you are chambering a round into an M16.

Do 'em good and will teach them a little respect.

My beef with the K&M is that the legs are like knife blades. At home, I'm often in bare feet or wearing only socks. I've nearly crippled myself accidentally stepping on the leg of a K&M stand. I do use one at home (bought before the BBC stand came out), but it stays set up permanently and I've learned where not to step.

For carrying, the BBC stand is far more portable and discreet on stage. The parts, particularly the knobs, one of which I have replaced to get a bigger handle, and the roll pins, which I've never had to replace, are commonly available from any good hardware supply. The legs are structural steel square tubing and the center column is steel round tubing. It does not at all depend on plastic threaded connections, which on the DEG require one to come up with alternative designs (a bicycle seatpost binder clamp is one such).

The DEG, in comparison, is riveted together lightweight aluminum tubing of the sort used for cheap keyboard stands and so on. There have been various designs, but they've all be light. And a heavy tuba will make short work of ruining the top--after years of surviving a Miraphone, the foam top on my DEG stand died within a year of when I started using the York Master, which is 10 pounds heavier. The BBC stand routinely supports the Holton without any such issues.

Rick "yes, there is a difference" Denney

[gwwilk]

You can also scare the hell out of your section mates when unfolding the legs as it sounds like you are chambering a round into an M16.

Do 'em good and will teach them a little respect.

My beef with the K&M is that the legs are like knife blades. At home, I'm often in bare feet or wearing only socks. I've nearly crippled myself accidentally stepping on the leg of a K&M stand. I do use one at home (bought before the BBC stand came out), but it stays set up permanently and I've learned where not to step.

For carrying, the BBC stand is far more portable and discreet on stage. The parts, particularly the knobs, one of which I have replaced to get a bigger handle, and the roll pins, which I've never had to replace, are commonly available from any good hardware supply. The legs are structural steel square tubing and the center column is steel round tubing. It does not at all depend on plastic threaded connections, which on the DEG require one to come up with alternative designs (a bicycle seatpost binder clamp is one such).

The DEG, in comparison, is riveted together lightweight aluminum tubing of the sort used for cheap keyboard stands and so on. There have been various designs, but they've all be light. And a heavy tuba will make short work of ruining the top--after years of surviving a Miraphone, the foam top on my DEG stand died within a year of when I started using the York Master, which is 10 pounds heavier. The BBC stand routinely supports the Holton without any such issues.

Rick "yes, there is a difference" Denney

+1 I made a bassoon player nearly hit the dirt before a concert band rehearsal once when I unfolded my BBS stand. My K&M stand stays at home, and my DEG is rotting in my basement.

[Bacchanalia]

Modifying a drum throne sounds reasonable, since they're certainly designed to handle more weight than even the largest BAT and have extremely inexpensive and varied brands to test out. Super easy to find at any music store too.

@ CK What modifications did you need to make? And can you maybe post a pic?
Thanks!

[chronolith]

Not had any serious trouble with my DEG and my Neptune. It's about 2 years old and seems to be holding up well enough, but I am fairly gentle with my equipment. My two complaints about the DEG are these. First, you really have to make sure the locking pin is in there all the way. I had it fall out during a gig once, and while the stand continued to function OK, the legs were slowly folding themselves back up before I noticed. Secondly, and more annoyingly, the foam pad tends to wander during play and slide (very very slowly) to one side or the other. Unless it is used constantly it will also come unstuck from the plastic completely until it is "trained". To deal with the wandering I just turn the top of it around 180 degrees every so often so it wanders back the other way.

Better stands out there? Probably. But for the money the DEG has served well enough.

[rodgeman]

I used a trombone stand with a kids drum stool top. I like it and my Mirafone does not move.

[THE TUBA]

Here's another vote for the BBC stand. Portable, durable, and effective.

[Roger Lewis]

I've modified the top of mine. Much more stable and easier to hit in a hurry and less dampening of the bottom bow. Pics to follow tomorrow. Cost of the changes, about $5.00.

Roger

[scottw]

I've had both the K&M and BB stand, and the BB comes out hands down every way. I have a friend with the DEG, and I found that to be a POS compared to the others. The almost flat leg profile of the BB stand works so much better than the K&M and the DEG, so much so that I have yet [6 years]to trip over them!

[Roger Lewis]

Here are the modifications I made to my BBC stand to make it easier. A piece of 3/4" plywood cut in a 6 1/2" circle with the edges rounded. On the top side, using contact cement, glue on a piece of 1/8" plumber's rubber (pink stuff available at most hardware stores. Cover this with the black grippy shelf rubber and staple it plenty on the underside stretching the heck out of it. The black shelf material I have only been able to find at Lowe's

The hardware is 3/4" pipe flange, a short 3/4" pipe nipple cut in half. Drill a hole in the side of the pipe nipple and use a 1/4" coarse tap to thread it. Buy a coarse threaded thumb screw and put it all together as shown.





Please let me know if you have any questions.

Roger

[Rick Denney]

But for the money the DEG has served well enough.

When it was $68 for the DEG versus $140 for the K&M (today's prices), then you betcha--one will do the redesigns necessary to keep the DEG working. But $68 for the DEG versus $85 for the BBC? I won't put up with the issues you described for $17.

Rick "whose DEG underwent several reconstructions before finally dying" Denney

[Lukowicz]

I'm going to second Roger's tuba stand modification. I have the same top, but instead of one of those other stands, I purchased a Tama HT-25 drum throne. I've had it almost 10 years and it never slips down, doubles as a footrest, and you never "miss" when putting the tuba on the stand, like you can with the rounded tops that are normally found on the stock stands. Just my 2 cents

[sloan]

K&M is in a completely different category. You have only to look at it to decide if you will like it or hate it.
If you gave me one, I would find a way to get rid of it.

The DEG and the BBC *look* very similar. Here, the difference is that the BBC is just better - in all possible ways.

I have an old DEG, and it works just fine (after replacing the broken clamp with a bicycle quick-release clamp. This is actually quite convenient and it the one thing I wish I could add to the BBC. I will happily use the modified DEG until it dies. I wouldn't buy another one, but if you offered me one for free I wouldn't turn it down.

My favorite, and the only one that ever leaves my practice room is the BBC. If I'm paying real money, it's the #1 (and only?) choice, for me. I'd love one with a quick-release lever (are you listening, Mr. Fedderly?)

And now...a bit on (what I think is) the right way to use one of these. In my opinion, the small-ish support surface is good. Gene Pokorny gave a good demonstration a few years ago of the positive benefits of supporting the bottom bow with as small a support as possible. That said, these things work best with a tuba that you can hold almost upright. If you hold the tuba at an angle, the support may not be under the center of gravity of the tuba, and you WILL spend extra energy holding up the tuba. Second - in my opinion, it's best to position the support so that the tuba is *almost, but not quite* where it would be if you were holding it in your lap. For one thing, if anything goes wrong, the tuba will simply settle into your lap.
For another, this encourages *me* to sit far forward on the edge of my chair, and yet still hold the tuba in roughly the same position it would be in if it were resting on the seat of the chair. This encourages proper posture.

With a tuba that sits more or less upright, I can control the position of the tuba with one finger. This means that I don't feel any great desire to put the tuba down while counting rests or listening to conductors. It just sits in exactly the right place, ready to play at all times. That, for me, is a big win.

Your milage may vary.