Missing Tuba and Greyhound package service

[ShoelessWes]

I made the horrifying mistake of shipping something greyhound...

The greyhound employee at the receiving station, stole the instrument and pawned it for drug money.

The guy at the pawn shop called the Greyhound Station, because greyhound guy left the sticker on the case. They saw him clearly on the tape stealing the horn.

Thankfully the horn got to the person I sold it to.

I can and never will tell people to use Greyhound. The tracking, ethics, insurance, etc they offer is not up to par. If it works for you, that is great, but your stuff, riding around in the bottom of a greyhound with other people's personal belongings can go horribly wrong.

Think about the types of people you see on a greyhound bus at night. Would you leave your tuba alone, on the concrete, with them, in high crime areas? Because Greyhound does.

[Dan Schultz]

.... Now might be a good time to reflect on how much you WOULD HAVE paid to avoid all that anxiety.

He could have paid A LOT more just to have had FEDEX trash a descent horn!

Who said anything about FedEx?

I did. I would much rather be a little nervous about late delivery than having to sweat out a horn being dead on arrival.

[tofu]

Who is liable in a private transaction, say for instance here on Tubenet, when something goes missing in transit say on Greyhound and never turns up or does turn up damaged? Say there is no insurance or the insurance doesn't cover the total price paid or value.

Is it the buyer or the seller that eats the uninsured loss?

[Dan Schultz]

The seller.

WHAT!?

An example (not that anyone would REALLY do this).....

Say I sell a tuba and the buyer INSISTS on having it shipped via XYZ Transit Company. On top of that... they want the Customs Declaration devalued in order to save taxes ... therefore lowering the insurance that can be purchased. The shipment never arrives.

I guess it just depends on whether you are the buyer or the seller. In a great many of cases, I am both. I try to avoid shippers who utilize large freight handling hubs.

Most of the stuff I buy is already beat all to crap so it doesn't really matter. On occasion, I might buy something really nice... in which case I specify the transportation and somewhat take responsibility for it's safe arrival.

[ShoelessWes]

Say I sell a tuba and the buyer INSISTS on having it shipped via XYZ Transit Company. On top of that... they want the Customs Declaration devalued in order to save taxes ... therefore lowering the insurance that can be purchased. The shipment never arrives.

The buyer trying to dictate terms of shipment does not remove your liability. This is why a lot of sellers will not waiver/waver (get it?) from their preferred shipping company.

[ShoelessWes]

Again, I can only speak from my limited experiences. Honestly, they aren't very limited (but I'm sure some chest thumper will come in here, like always on tubenet). Those experiences are shipping $250,000+ in equipment and vehicles every week. Sometimes using 4 or 5 shipping services simultaneously.

In all shipping encounters I've had, the greyhound one included, the shipper is liable. You can search for contract verbiage, or "pick ups" (which aren't shipping, in the business sense) like from walmart. In the end, if you ask me to send you something and I do it... I'm responsible for that, even if you told me what means to ship it.

You can't really pass along the buck in shipping. One of the major reasons for this is because the buyer, in most cases, has not seen the shipment. It serves as a way to keep people from shipping broken or not correctly described items, then making them the buyers liability.

[MikeMilnarik]

Hello All,

Have shipped and received horns via Greyhound many times over the years. Have received horns from FedEx, UPS and DHL - that arrived damaged from all three. Greyhound and AMTRAK have been the two most reliable ways to ship (in my experience) in the sense that I've never had a horn damaged by either of these methods. FedEx, UPS and DHL all use conveyors and things fall off, are thrown, etc. With Greyhound the package (instrument) is placed in the luggage compartment and can't fall as far if dropped. With AMTRAK the package (instrument) is put on a skid and wrapped with a heavy duty plastic wrap so that the load doesn't shift during transit.

That being said - my problems are similar to what many people have outlined with Greyhound. You must ship via Priority shipping so that it gets on every scheduled bus between points A and B. Standard shipping can possibly work only IF there is enough room, or it will keep getting bumped.

I live in the Boston area and there is one gentleman that is completely on top of things at Greyhound and is great to deal with. 98% of the time - people that work in the Boston and NYC package Xpress - purposely - will not answer the phone. One Greyhound Package Xpress cannot communicate with another due to this. So it is almost impossible for you to find out if your package is there until they call you...if they remember to call.

I had a problem with a horn arriving in Boston once. I made a number of trips down to the Greyhound station because no one would answer the phone. When I did get someone on the phone they'd tell me that it hadn't arrived yet and would get aggravated that I was calling again. I was told that Greyhound has no tracking numbers to find out where the horn is. There is a number called a GLI number that they use for packages, but I'm told they don't use it for tracking. (Don't know if this is true.) Greyhound has also told me that they will not investigate a package's location via standard shipping if it has not been missing for at least 30 days. The horn that I kept inquiring about hadn't turned up for 28 days and I decided to make a trip into town again to find out what was going on. They were closed - even though hours posted said they would be open for another hour after I had gotten there. There's a hallway that goes around the room that they use. Around the back there's a high window that you can see into the room where they keep the packages. I was able to peak into the room and saw a very large box - like one for a large appliance sitting there. I knew it had to be it. The next day I called and, fortunately, got the one person that knows what's going on, on the phone. He checked the computer and said that it wasn't there yet. I told him that I had seen a large box sitting in the back room, and asked if he minded checking the box to see if it was it. He did. He came back and told me that, that box had been sitting back there for about 3 weeks and it WAS the tuba! He then explained that the problem was whoever was working when it arrived never logged it into the computer. So each time I lucky enough to get someone on the phone or each time I went down there and was told it wasn't there yet - they were checking the computer - which didn't have it logged in.

So the next problem is - they won't investigate a package that is missing unless it's been missing for at least 30 days. I haven't had that problem - but he's a scenario that is probably the reason why...

Each time they call the stations en route to find where the package might be sitting, no one answers the phone. The employees won't answer their own phone, let alone have to call over and over again to get another station on the phone. So they don't deal with it. Next problem - IF - they can get someone on the phone and an employee doesn't do their job by logging in packages when they arrive - the person on the phone is only going to check the computer and report that the package isn't there. Their system is a mess!

On the other side of things - Greyhound has been one of the safest methods of shipping instruments for me, but you have to deal with a lot of incompetence at the counter - at least in Boston. Make sure that if you ship this way and someone tells you your package isn't there yet, politely ask them to check for any large boxes that might be there - in case someone forgot to log it into their computer.

BTW - Another disadvantage of Greyhound is insurance coverage varies from station to station. In Boston you can insure a package up to a value of $350.00 (unless it's changed) and no, I didn't forget a zero! I haven't shipped AMTRAK for a while, but they were great every time I used them - at least from the Boston end. Initially you can insure a package for up to $2000.00 but you can buy additional insurance up to $10,000.00 total. Someone recently told me that changed, but I'm not sure. The insurance through AMTRAK was standardized at all stations. So if it changed in Boston it probably changed everywhere.

Another solution is a trucking company. I've received instruments through Consolidated Freightways a few times without incident, however, those horns were packed very well.

Experiences may vary. I hope this information can help someone a bit.

Mike Milnarik

[Donn]

If your carton is sitting there and in comes a wood crate with a Chevy engine block in it, they would just as soon set the Chevy engine block on top of your tuba carton, if it's a nice fit when loading.

I received a tuba via air freight once (rather expensive way to go), and the custom cardboard box was slanted on top. So, since there's no level surface to stack things on, it would have had to sit on top of the stack.

[Dan Schultz]

There has been some wrong information posted in this thread. (imagine that!)

'Priority' means nothing other that 'next bus out'. The Terms and Conditions does not address the issue but I'll bet it only applies to the FIRST LEG of the journey. ALL Greyhound shipments over 650 miles go 'Standard'.

The liability limit of $1,000 is the cap within a certain number of Greyhound 'zones'. This seems to be about 1,000 miles. Everything outside a certain number of 'zones' is $300.

Go to Greyhound Package Express web site and read the 'terms and conditions'.

I've been using Greyhound for tubas and such for over ten years. Prior to that... I used Greyhound for machine-tool parts and engineering related things. Never had a problem. But.... it is what it is.

[MikeMilnarik]

Hi Dan,

This is helpful information. I've had priority explained to me differently, as well as the liability amounts. Knowing the low standards that the majority of employees hired at the Boston location have - I would trust you over what I've been told by them.

Also, I have never read the terms on the website. I have always been extremely frustrated with the Greyhound website - in regard to both transportation information, and also shipping information. The Boston location has their hours posted on the website and they do not stick to them. So I have actually avoided trying to find anything there. So again, I trust your information and appreciate knowing this.

Thank you for this information.

Mike Milnarik

[Dan Schultz]

Hi Dan,

This is helpful information. I've had priority explained to me differently, as well as the liability amounts. Knowing the low standards that the majority of employees hired at the Boston location have - I would trust you over what I've been told by them.....

I've been told that 'Priority' means nothing when the bus if loaded with passengers and stuffed with their personal belongings.

It is sort of a 'moving target'. I trust the guy who runs the Evansville terminal. I think he's been there for at least 25 years and really seems to know what he's doing. But... that's not to say and the next terminal clerk will abide by 'his' thinking.

I've been at his desk while he was obviously talking with law enforcement folks who were looking for someone. He explained that Greyhound does not even ask for ID when they sell a ticket so Greyhound has no idea of who is really riding the buses.... or what is in the packages they handle. Interesting organization to say the least!

Their reliability is good enough that I do not worry about their liability limits.

[keegan watson]

In the last six months I have sold two tubas. I ended up shipping them both with FedEx and both arrived without harm. For one of the tubas that I sold, the buyer shipped me a flight case to ship the tuba back in. They sent the flight case through Greyhound and it arrived quickly. As soon as the case arrived, I received a phone call about the arrival. I was very pleased with the service and thought that it was reasonably priced and time efficient (the two destinations were Indianapolis and Washington DC so both are large cities, maybe helping with the speed of delivery.) After receiving the case, I put the tuba in and took it back to the Greyhound station to ship to the buyer. When I arrived the lady at the counter said that "Greyhound was not supposed to ship instruments at all and the stations that do send out instruments aren't doing their job." However, I have read here on the forum that many people have used Greyhound with success and so I inquired as to why this was the case. Apparently, sometime recently, "there was a shipping incident with an instrument with a claim of several thousand dollars that the corporate office is sorting out" - from the Package Express personnel. I have since looked through the terms and conditions of Greyhound's shipping policies and there is nothing prohibiting instruments from shipment, however, if the package is valued at $1,000 or more, Greyhound is not supposed to ship that package.

All that being said, ship at your own risk. It seems that regardless of what company you use for shipping, there is no guarantee about the condition of your instrument upon arrival. The best thing to do is to plan for the worst case scenario and be redundant about your packing methods; say a prayer to whatever entity you observe and hope for the best.

[roughrider]

I recently purchased a horn from another member of this site. The horn travelled 18OO miles by Greyhound Package Service and arrived in two days! While the horn was well packed, I received excellent service from the staff at the local bus station. They directed me into the bus area and had the box on a cart ready to go. The employee helped me fit the box into the back of the van and we were on our way home. I have no complaints with Greyhound and I really like the fact that my new horn rode so close to the ground on its journey here from Vancouver!

[MikeMilnarik]

Even though I've had issues with Greyhound - I end up shipping through them from time to time because, although frustrating at times, the horns arrive (at some point) "uninjured."

My personal philosophy is that whether UPS and FedEx will honor the insurance claims or not, nothing is better than having an instrument arrive in one piece, unscathed - that does not have to go in for repairs, even if the insurance company is paying for it.

I agree, be redundant in your packing. The few extra dollars can save a lot headaches.

Mike Milnarik