Makita chainsaw floods out

[oldbandnerd]

I tried to rent a Makita chainsaw from a HOME DEPOT store today and had problems it flooding out while trying to get it started. I went back and got another one and it did the same thing . Anyone here have any experience with the Makita's and know why the flood so easy ?
I finally got a refund on the rental and am considering buying one. The ones at HOME DEPOT looked like they belonged at a Toy's R Us and I would not waste my money on any of them. What's a good make and model of one for $250.00 or less?

[Ken Herrick]

If you google for Stihl you can find a dealer and a selection of their saws and pricing. I would say, from personal experience and MANY others who have used them that they are a very good quality machine at a good price. Follow the starting procedure - pretty simple - and they are very easy to start.

Consider what use you plan for your chainsaw and possibly go 1 step above what you think you need, without going too big, and you will get one which will last a long time with proper care and servicing. If you are a once a year user who only trims a few branches off a few trees you won't need a big one. Stihl offers "kits" which include the proper safety gear, lubicants etc.
I do recommend use of the Stihl brand lubes - they are a bit more expensive than some but cheaper to use as you need less and they perform very well.

In years past I harvested hundreds of tons of fire wood and found the Stihls a very good choice.

Other good brands are Honda and Husqvarna.

By the way - most of the small engines are best started by 1 or 2 pulls on full choke, then one or two on half. Also don't over prime.

[Dan Schultz]

If you're not exactly going into business as a lumberjack... consider an electric chainsaw. I have a Craftsman 16" one that will do anything I need done in terms of fallen limbs, cutting deck lumber (4 x 4's), etc. I'm even using it to gnaw around on three old locust stumps in the back forty.

Same with string trimmers.... the battery-operated ones are far nicer than messing with gasoline ones.

[wtuba]

Stihl is an excellent brand, and you might also want to check out ECHO brand chainsaws... I have one, and it has always been easy to start, well designed ergonomically; some models also come with a "kit." In addition, the ECHO brand oil comes in a container that allows measuring the proper amount to add to the gasoline, making that process much easier. I have been very satisfied with mine... recently purchased a new ECHO trimmer, which so far has been outstanding. Home Depot carries ECHO trimmers; I have not looked there for chainsaws, but I would guess they have those too. As Ken said, a lot depends on what you want to do with it, and his advice about sizing is right on the mark.

Will Traphagan

[Ken Herrick]

Soomething I should have mentioned earlier. The type of chain used on a saw will make a big difference and should be selected according to what you will be cutting. Hardwoods and pine take very different chains and the correct sharpening sets are different too. It is important for SAFE cuttung, and minimising wear and tear on the machine to have those points right.

Chain saws are potentially very dangerous machines - they are just as happy to cut a leg off as cut wood.

Dan's comments are fine though, I myself do not like electric outdoor tools. Wtuba's comments about Echo are worth echoing too.

You might find it a good idea to go to a specialist dealer in such equipment and discuss your needs and see what solutions they come up with and you can still shop around further for price if you like. I do prefer, when I am in doubt, to shop by seeking good advice and over the years have found that the place which gives such advice is also the place to buy - even if the original price is a bit higher.

Number one consideration is SAFETY,, including wearing hearing and eye protection. Not knowing your level of experience or what you plan to do; if in doubt let somebody else do the job.

[Dan Schultz]

.... I myself do not like electric outdoor tools. ....

Do you guys use 240volt 50hz single wire 'lectric 'Down Under'?

If so... I don't think I would be a fan of electric, either!

[Ken Herrick]

Yep, Dan 240v 50Hz is the standard here but with an earth lead included. Domestic wiring standards also require fitting of a safety swith which will actually trip a circuit so fast that it is darn near impossible to electrocute yourself. This set up is probably a lot safer than 110v non eathed wiring. 240v also has advantages in that even electric stoves and clothes driers can be run of plug-in power if the wiring is 16 amp or better which eliminates the need for the old 3 phase.

Fortunately my tubas seem to run just as well here despite the voltage difference. Prolly that contra of yours would work too - should have snuck it into the box with the King By the way the University of Ill band department might just have some leads on reads for that one.

[Biggs]

Which brand would you recommend for juggling purposes?

[termite]

Here's my two cents worth.

I'm not a regular chainsaw user but I spend a lot of time with other power tools/small machinery.

If it was me I would got to a specialist supplier (not a big box hardware) and ask for advice. I would declare my lack of chainsaw experience and say what I needed to use it for and pick the guy's brain as hard as I could. (I've seen a lot of guys in hardware type places pretending that they know everything when they obviously don't. I've learnt a LOT over the years by asking - the macho types sneer at me but I walk out knowing more than when I walked in - they don't).

I spend a lot of time with stationary woodworking machinery and related power tools - I sought out training on all of them before buying my own equipment.
I am horrified that people can buy this sort of stuff without having to learn how to use it safely first. I know a LOT of builders/woodworkers with bits of fingers missing. I myself have eleven toenails thanks to a blunt nine and a quarter inch Makita and not thinking. Knowledge is power AND safety.

I would do a training course before trying to do too much with a chainsaw.
I don't know much about chainsaws but I get the impression that they need to be sharpened after every use unless you're literally only cutting one branch.
I imagine being even slightly blunt would have a big impact on safety, maybe more so than other tools.

I like petrol motors for this sort of thing rather than electric but that's just me.
I also like larger, rather than smaller machines as I find them much easier, faster and safer to use. I hate forcing an under-powered tool through a workpiece. However someone who spends less time with tools may feel more comfortable and be safer with a smaller tool.

Stihl, Honda or Husqvarna should all be good. I usually pick between quality tools by seeing which one feels right in my hands (a bit like seeing which tuba chooses you), and by reading internet reviews if I have time.
If you buy one of those brands you will never need to buy another one. I hate replacing stuff - it takes time and money.
Regular chainsaw users seem to talk about Husqvarna a lot.

Regards

Gerard

[oldbandnerd]

Thanks to all who have repiled here . I supposed I should have said that right now all I need to do is take down one tree. I rarely have the need for a chainsaw otherwise . I do prune my trees but use a hand saw for that . My only reasons for even thinking about buying a chainsaw was first of all my frustration with Home Depot and the cost of the rental was almost half the cost of buying a new chain saw.
As much as I like gadgets and tools I really don't want to have yet another small engine tool that I can't repair. I've had nothing but bad experiences with 3 different gas powered trimmers that were absolute junk and were designed so that the avereage joe like me can get into them to try to fix them.
I'm pretty good at fixing things when I can take them apart and figure out how they work or can get repair instructions from either a book or from another person. But when the manufacturers use rivets and screws the require a special tools to keep the average joe out of their product I don't have the time or the tools to deal with it.
When I looked at what Home Depot had to offer I saw a lot plastic cheap manufacturing. That included the ECHO chainsaws. but,on the advice given here I will look at the ECHO again. They all looked like cheap toys from Mattel but to be fair I was in hurry and didn't really spend a whole of time looking any futher than the what the bodies were made of.
If I buy a new one it it will have to be able to sit in many shed for many months or even a year at a time and still be able to work. I suppose like a lot of my other yard tools if I have it I will find more useses for it.

[tbn.al]

If I buy a new one it it will have to be able to sit in many shed for many months or even a year at a time and still be able to work.

Gasoline powered tool? NOT!

[Rick F]

Gasoline powered tool? NOT!

+1
I have an emergency generator (4-cycle) and run it every month for ~10 mins. Gasoline starts to spoil in about 60 days so only keep a small amount of gasoline in the tank — with stabilizer added. The 2-cycle engines can be even more of a concern.

[Donn]

If you're not exactly going into business as a lumberjack... consider an electric chainsaw.

I've noticed a certain amount of used powered tools for sale around here on craigslist, with dead batteries. Cordless drills, etc. The seller would presumably tell you that you can replace that battery, though evidently that wasn't a solution that appealed to him. I like tools that have been around for a few decades, or that at least seem to have that potential, but it looks like the life span of cordless stuff is limited by the battery - maybe you can replace it in the short term, but 30 years later? That isn't a long time, given only occasional use and not left out in the rain.

But that's by comparison to house current powered tools. Compared to gas, the convenience of no need to run it every month for 10 minutes, plus other nuisances and hazards involved with gas, not to mention the stench

[Dan Schultz]

If you're not exactly going into business as a lumberjack... consider an electric chainsaw.

I've noticed a certain amount of used powered tools for sale around here on craigslist, with dead batteries. ....

Oh.... I'm not a fan of batteries, either. My electric chainsaw is corded. So are my hedge trimmers.

The stumps I'm whittling away on are 300' from my house and it's true that stringing out extension cords is a pain in the butt. However.... this labor only happens in 'spurts' and I can be assured that the electric thingies will ALWAYS start.

[Donn]

In the average case of do-it-yourself tree removal, if anything is going to be a significant hazard to the person doing it, I'd bet on the tree before the saw. Trees don't like to be cut down, and they'll do what they can to take you with them.

I have felled only rather diminutive trees, like 8" trunks, for which you don't really need any kind of chainsaw. If I were going to get one, the electrics have a number of obvious advantages, but I'd probably supplement my advice from tuba players with some reading on-line at chainsaw retailers and consumer research sites. Then I'd get one made in Italy or something, because who wants to have the same chainsaw as all the neighbors?

[ralphbsz]

My first advice is: Stay the hell away from chainsaws. They are the most dangerous tool known to homeowners. It's cheaper to hire someone to do the tree work. Furthermore, do as I say, not as I do: While I own 4 chainsaws, and do a lot of (amateur) tree work, I also nearly lost my right index finger (kind of bad for a piano player), and now have a very stiff finger. Makes accompanying the budding tuba player in our household a little harder. If you really want a chainsaw, invest effort into learning how to use it, and get lots of good safety gear.

I tried to rent a Makita chainsaw from a HOME DEPOT store today and had problems it flooding out while trying to get it started. I went back and got another one and it did the same thing . Anyone here have any experience with the Makita's and know why the flood so easy ?

Makita chainsaws are actually made by Dolmar in Germany (Makita has owned Dolmar for decades). And Dolmar is the name for the old Sachs company. They make very fine chainsaws. I have the model 7900 at home (a big monster). These are high-quality tools (maybe run into the ground by the rental yard), and they should work excellently.

If you flooded two of them while starting, there are two options. Either there is a common failure mode to the saw. For example, the monkeys at H.D. might have adjusted the carbs wrong, consistently wrong. Or they are using really bad gasoline. However, I find those explanations to be unlikely; the guys at the store are probably capable of getting the saws running.

Sadly, the more likely explanation is the other common factor: you. Starting 2-stroke engines requires a little bit of experience and skill. And no two engines are the same; you have to learn what they like. Please don't take this as personal criticism: Most likely, you are doing something wrong. Maybe you don't use the choke? Or forget to release the choke? Or try to start them in idle, and they like to be started at half throttle? Or trying to start them at full throttle, and they like idle or half throttle? Or not pulling hard enough? I have some engines that need to be started by putting the choke on, then pulling the rope 3 or 4 times, until they *nearly* start; then taking the choke back off, and starting them at half throttle (if they don't start on the first pull, go back to choke). I have other engines that will only run when cold with partial choke, and can't be started at either full choke or no choke. Ask the guys at H.D. to show you how they start the engine.

Are you using old gasoline? Here in California, we are told to use premium to mix 2-stroke gas, with 76 and Chevron being the best choices; other states have different blends (different environmental laws), and that advice might not apply in your area. If I use regular gasoline with motorcycle 2-stroke oil (instead of chainsaw 2-stroke oil), and then let the gas sit in the can for 3 months, then the tools won't start either (and likely clog the carburetor).

I finally got a refund on the rental and am considering buying one. The ones at HOME DEPOT looked like they belonged at a Toy's R Us and I would not waste my money on any of them. What's a good make and model of one for $250.00 or less?

There is none. There are lots of good chainsaws. The two big brand names (like BMW and Mercedes) are Stihl and Husqvarna. There are also other brands that have many good models (Echo, Shindaiwa, Jorgensen, Dolmar), but are lacking the reputation, the consistency, and the dealer network. But all the good saws cost WAY more than $250.

The ones you find at home centers are junk. They will work for a short while, but badly (weak, unergonomic, unsafe). They will not last. If you are a real mechanical hero, you can buy them (preferably used), and keep them going. For the average amateur chainsaw user, that's either impossible, or a really hard way to save money.

And, once you have a chainsaw, you have a maintenance hassle. Gasoline needs to be regularly replaced. Chains need to be sharpened (that's surprisingly difficult for an amateur). Chain oil needs to be stocked. Surgeons need to be paid. This is why I suggest leaving chainsaw work to professionals.

If you really think that you need a chainsaw at home, here's my advice: Find a good chainsaw store in the area. Not a home center, and in most cases not the back counter at the local Ace. Look for a store where there is at least one person whose entire job is dealing with chainsaws (or at least with small engines, like trimmers and leaf blowers). Then ask the for advice. And make that store your chainsaw supply central, where you go regularly, and keep on good terms with the staff. You will need them for repairs, parts, advice, and chain sharpening. I did this with my first few tools (Stihl saw, Honda generator, Stihl trimmer, Echo saw, Stihl leaf blower), and only once I had the skills to do all my maintenance myself did I branch out into brands that don't have that kind of dealer support (Dolmar saw, Poulan pole pruner, earth auger, pressure washer and vibraplate with no-name Chinese engines, and most recently a Wacker tamper).

Interesting coincidence: My son's tuba teacher lives 2 blocks from a very fine chainsaw store, and today on the way back from tuba lesson, I stopped there and ordered $50 worth of spare parts for my string trimmer (another Stihl). But then, I do nearly all of my maintenance at home.

[ralphbsz]

What's the difference between a chainsaw and a trombone (or viola)?

A chainsaw can do vibrato.

[oldbandnerd]

I do know how to use and handle a chainsaw. We had a fireplace insert at the house and dad use to take me with him to cut wood for it. I was never allowed to actually cut the tree down but I did plenty of limb removal and sectioning up of the tree. I have started many 2 stroke engines and have never had this much problem with a chainsaw. I just wish I knew how to work on them. I don't like being able to fix my own stuff.
I can only give the people at the HOME DEOPT rental the benifif of a doubt and say the say the gas they gave me was good and the equipment well maintained. They were all clean and the blades well sharpened . The two I was given were started up at the rental desk but not without a lot work and really violent and numerous pulls on the cord. They had to go through a couple both time to find one that would start.
I am hardley a novice with power tools and know enough to be able to maintain my own stuff as long as it doesn't involve removeing riveted parts and screws that require a special tool. That is what I see on so many cheapo small engine power tools. These make them throw aways and a waste of my time and money . I know how to drain a 2 stroke engine and keep a stablizer in the engine when it's stored. But when the tool was never built to last it doesn't make a difference.
Thanks for everyones advice. I have decided buying a chainsaw makes no sense for me and have been able to borrow one from a neighbour. Even got him to aggree to help me .

[ralphbsz]

I have started many 2 stroke engines and have never had this much problem with a chainsaw. I just wish I knew how to work on them.

I apologize if my post came over as too critical. Better to err on the side of caution, even if it seems impolite.

And the single hardest part in doing maintenance on small engines (at least for me) is adjusting the carbs. I even have some of the specialized equipment (like an electronic tachometer), and I still have a hard time getting them to where they run smooth (both under full load and at idle), and start easily. This is where experience really comes in; the mechanic at the store just listens to the engine, tweaks the screws until it "sounds" right, and then it runs wonderful. It's magic.

The two I was given were started up at the rental desk but not without a lot work and really violent and numerous pulls on the cord. They had to go through a couple both time to find one that would start.

It seems that this rental place is very good at ruining engines. Oops. Hopefully they just misadjusted the carbs. Unfortunately, there is a more sinister explanation too: If you run a two-stroke engine on unmixed gas (on 4-stroke gas, like you get at the pump), then it will seize. But if you do that only for a little bit, then it won't completely seize, and instead you ruin the piston rings and the cylinder wall. That in turn reduces compression. And strangely, 2-stroke engines run surprisingly well with bad compression, except they are murderously hard to start, only only have partial power. Maybe this is what happened: This rental place doesn't do good maintenance and lets the tool get into bad shape, but they do the cosmetic stuff and the sharpening. As long as they can get the engine to barely run, they can rent the machine out, and after that it goes into the trash, or to a competent place for rebuilds.

My dirt bike (a Yamaha 250) now has low compression: I pretty much have to rollstart it on a hillside to get it going, and it is nowhere as fast as the bikes my friends ride (yet more than powerful enough for me). This happened through overuse and old age, not by running on the wrong gas though. The problem with fixing it is that it's lots of work: remove the top end, replace all rings (maybe the piston while it's open), the reeds, check the cylinder (maybe have it replated it if it's worn); for an adult-size motorcycle and my skills that's a weekend or two. Rebuilding a garden tool engine goes much faster, that can be done in an afternoon (if all the parts are lined up and you have the tools). I bet real professionals do it 10x faster.

Anycase, good luck to your trees. May they look nice and trimmed, or be stacked by the cord in short pieces!

[oldbandnerd]

ralphbsz .... I didn't think you were critical at all and I appreciate your taking the time to answer my post . It was all good info .