Makita chainsaw floods out

Be kind. No government, state, or local politics allowed. Admin has final decision for any/all removed posts.
Forum rules
Be kind. No government, state, or local politics allowed. Admin has final decision for any/all removed posts.
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by Donn »

TubaTinker wrote:If you're not exactly going into business as a lumberjack... consider an electric chainsaw.
I've noticed a certain amount of used powered tools for sale around here on craigslist, with dead batteries. Cordless drills, etc. The seller would presumably tell you that you can replace that battery, though evidently that wasn't a solution that appealed to him. I like tools that have been around for a few decades, or that at least seem to have that potential, but it looks like the life span of cordless stuff is limited by the battery - maybe you can replace it in the short term, but 30 years later? That isn't a long time, given only occasional use and not left out in the rain.

But that's by comparison to house current powered tools. Compared to gas, the convenience of no need to run it every month for 10 minutes, plus other nuisances and hazards involved with gas, not to mention the stench
User avatar
Dan Schultz
TubaTinker
TubaTinker
Posts: 10424
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 10:46 pm
Location: Newburgh, Indiana
Contact:

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by Dan Schultz »

Donn wrote:
TubaTinker wrote:If you're not exactly going into business as a lumberjack... consider an electric chainsaw.
I've noticed a certain amount of used powered tools for sale around here on craigslist, with dead batteries. ....
Oh.... I'm not a fan of batteries, either. My electric chainsaw is corded. So are my hedge trimmers.

The stumps I'm whittling away on are 300' from my house and it's true that stringing out extension cords is a pain in the butt. However.... this labor only happens in 'spurts' and I can be assured that the electric thingies will ALWAYS start.
Dan Schultz
"The Village Tinker"
http://www.thevillagetinker.com" target="_blank
Current 'stable'... Rudolf Meinl 5/4, Marzan (by Willson) euph, King 2341, Alphorn, and other strange stuff.
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by Donn »

In the average case of do-it-yourself tree removal, if anything is going to be a significant hazard to the person doing it, I'd bet on the tree before the saw. Trees don't like to be cut down, and they'll do what they can to take you with them.

I have felled only rather diminutive trees, like 8" trunks, for which you don't really need any kind of chainsaw. If I were going to get one, the electrics have a number of obvious advantages, but I'd probably supplement my advice from tuba players with some reading on-line at chainsaw retailers and consumer research sites. Then I'd get one made in Italy or something, because who wants to have the same chainsaw as all the neighbors?
ralphbsz
bugler
bugler
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Los Gatos, CA

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by ralphbsz »

My first advice is: Stay the hell away from chainsaws. They are the most dangerous tool known to homeowners. It's cheaper to hire someone to do the tree work. Furthermore, do as I say, not as I do: While I own 4 chainsaws, and do a lot of (amateur) tree work, I also nearly lost my right index finger (kind of bad for a piano player), and now have a very stiff finger. Makes accompanying the budding tuba player in our household a little harder. If you really want a chainsaw, invest effort into learning how to use it, and get lots of good safety gear.
oldbandnerd wrote:I tried to rent a Makita chainsaw from a HOME DEPOT store today and had problems it flooding out while trying to get it started. I went back and got another one and it did the same thing . Anyone here have any experience with the Makita's and know why the flood so easy ?
Makita chainsaws are actually made by Dolmar in Germany (Makita has owned Dolmar for decades). And Dolmar is the name for the old Sachs company. They make very fine chainsaws. I have the model 7900 at home (a big monster). These are high-quality tools (maybe run into the ground by the rental yard), and they should work excellently.

If you flooded two of them while starting, there are two options. Either there is a common failure mode to the saw. For example, the monkeys at H.D. might have adjusted the carbs wrong, consistently wrong. Or they are using really bad gasoline. However, I find those explanations to be unlikely; the guys at the store are probably capable of getting the saws running.

Sadly, the more likely explanation is the other common factor: you. Starting 2-stroke engines requires a little bit of experience and skill. And no two engines are the same; you have to learn what they like. Please don't take this as personal criticism: Most likely, you are doing something wrong. Maybe you don't use the choke? Or forget to release the choke? Or try to start them in idle, and they like to be started at half throttle? Or trying to start them at full throttle, and they like idle or half throttle? Or not pulling hard enough? I have some engines that need to be started by putting the choke on, then pulling the rope 3 or 4 times, until they *nearly* start; then taking the choke back off, and starting them at half throttle (if they don't start on the first pull, go back to choke). I have other engines that will only run when cold with partial choke, and can't be started at either full choke or no choke. Ask the guys at H.D. to show you how they start the engine.

Are you using old gasoline? Here in California, we are told to use premium to mix 2-stroke gas, with 76 and Chevron being the best choices; other states have different blends (different environmental laws), and that advice might not apply in your area. If I use regular gasoline with motorcycle 2-stroke oil (instead of chainsaw 2-stroke oil), and then let the gas sit in the can for 3 months, then the tools won't start either (and likely clog the carburetor).
I finally got a refund on the rental and am considering buying one. The ones at HOME DEPOT looked like they belonged at a Toy's R Us and I would not waste my money on any of them. What's a good make and model of one for $250.00 or less?
There is none. There are lots of good chainsaws. The two big brand names (like BMW and Mercedes) are Stihl and Husqvarna. There are also other brands that have many good models (Echo, Shindaiwa, Jorgensen, Dolmar), but are lacking the reputation, the consistency, and the dealer network. But all the good saws cost WAY more than $250.

The ones you find at home centers are junk. They will work for a short while, but badly (weak, unergonomic, unsafe). They will not last. If you are a real mechanical hero, you can buy them (preferably used), and keep them going. For the average amateur chainsaw user, that's either impossible, or a really hard way to save money.

And, once you have a chainsaw, you have a maintenance hassle. Gasoline needs to be regularly replaced. Chains need to be sharpened (that's surprisingly difficult for an amateur). Chain oil needs to be stocked. Surgeons need to be paid. This is why I suggest leaving chainsaw work to professionals.

If you really think that you need a chainsaw at home, here's my advice: Find a good chainsaw store in the area. Not a home center, and in most cases not the back counter at the local Ace. Look for a store where there is at least one person whose entire job is dealing with chainsaws (or at least with small engines, like trimmers and leaf blowers). Then ask the for advice. And make that store your chainsaw supply central, where you go regularly, and keep on good terms with the staff. You will need them for repairs, parts, advice, and chain sharpening. I did this with my first few tools (Stihl saw, Honda generator, Stihl trimmer, Echo saw, Stihl leaf blower), and only once I had the skills to do all my maintenance myself did I branch out into brands that don't have that kind of dealer support (Dolmar saw, Poulan pole pruner, earth auger, pressure washer and vibraplate with no-name Chinese engines, and most recently a Wacker tamper).

Interesting coincidence: My son's tuba teacher lives 2 blocks from a very fine chainsaw store, and today on the way back from tuba lesson, I stopped there and ordered $50 worth of spare parts for my string trimmer (another Stihl). But then, I do nearly all of my maintenance at home.
ralphbsz
bugler
bugler
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Los Gatos, CA

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by ralphbsz »

What's the difference between a chainsaw and a trombone (or viola)?

A chainsaw can do vibrato.
oldbandnerd
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1031
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: No matter where you go... there you are .
Contact:

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by oldbandnerd »

I do know how to use and handle a chainsaw. We had a fireplace insert at the house and dad use to take me with him to cut wood for it. I was never allowed to actually cut the tree down but I did plenty of limb removal and sectioning up of the tree. I have started many 2 stroke engines and have never had this much problem with a chainsaw. I just wish I knew how to work on them. I don't like being able to fix my own stuff.
I can only give the people at the HOME DEOPT rental the benifif of a doubt and say the say the gas they gave me was good and the equipment well maintained. They were all clean and the blades well sharpened . The two I was given were started up at the rental desk but not without a lot work and really violent and numerous pulls on the cord. They had to go through a couple both time to find one that would start.
I am hardley a novice with power tools and know enough to be able to maintain my own stuff as long as it doesn't involve removeing riveted parts and screws that require a special tool. That is what I see on so many cheapo small engine power tools. These make them throw aways and a waste of my time and money . I know how to drain a 2 stroke engine and keep a stablizer in the engine when it's stored. But when the tool was never built to last it doesn't make a difference.
Thanks for everyones advice. I have decided buying a chainsaw makes no sense for me and have been able to borrow one from a neighbour. Even got him to aggree to help me .
Image
ralphbsz
bugler
bugler
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:39 pm
Location: Los Gatos, CA

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by ralphbsz »

oldbandnerd wrote:I have started many 2 stroke engines and have never had this much problem with a chainsaw. I just wish I knew how to work on them.
I apologize if my post came over as too critical. Better to err on the side of caution, even if it seems impolite.

And the single hardest part in doing maintenance on small engines (at least for me) is adjusting the carbs. I even have some of the specialized equipment (like an electronic tachometer), and I still have a hard time getting them to where they run smooth (both under full load and at idle), and start easily. This is where experience really comes in; the mechanic at the store just listens to the engine, tweaks the screws until it "sounds" right, and then it runs wonderful. It's magic.
The two I was given were started up at the rental desk but not without a lot work and really violent and numerous pulls on the cord. They had to go through a couple both time to find one that would start.
It seems that this rental place is very good at ruining engines. Oops. Hopefully they just misadjusted the carbs. Unfortunately, there is a more sinister explanation too: If you run a two-stroke engine on unmixed gas (on 4-stroke gas, like you get at the pump), then it will seize. But if you do that only for a little bit, then it won't completely seize, and instead you ruin the piston rings and the cylinder wall. That in turn reduces compression. And strangely, 2-stroke engines run surprisingly well with bad compression, except they are murderously hard to start, only only have partial power. Maybe this is what happened: This rental place doesn't do good maintenance and lets the tool get into bad shape, but they do the cosmetic stuff and the sharpening. As long as they can get the engine to barely run, they can rent the machine out, and after that it goes into the trash, or to a competent place for rebuilds.

My dirt bike (a Yamaha 250) now has low compression: I pretty much have to rollstart it on a hillside to get it going, and it is nowhere as fast as the bikes my friends ride (yet more than powerful enough for me). This happened through overuse and old age, not by running on the wrong gas though. The problem with fixing it is that it's lots of work: remove the top end, replace all rings (maybe the piston while it's open), the reeds, check the cylinder (maybe have it replated it if it's worn); for an adult-size motorcycle and my skills that's a weekend or two. Rebuilding a garden tool engine goes much faster, that can be done in an afternoon (if all the parts are lined up and you have the tools). I bet real professionals do it 10x faster.

Anycase, good luck to your trees. May they look nice and trimmed, or be stacked by the cord in short pieces!
oldbandnerd
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1031
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: No matter where you go... there you are .
Contact:

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by oldbandnerd »

ralphbsz .... I didn't think you were critical at all and I appreciate your taking the time to answer my post . It was all good info .
Image
oldbandnerd
5 valves
5 valves
Posts: 1031
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:43 pm
Location: No matter where you go... there you are .
Contact:

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by oldbandnerd »

The tree is down and I am victorius ! I borrowed an electric chainsaw. 120v 15amp 18" bar and plenty of muscle !
It was a WORX brand and tough as hell. The diameter of the oak tree was 20" and this little chainsaw had no problem with it.
Only $95.00 and no hassle of mixing gas and oil or flooding it out . I gotta have one !

http://youtu.be/1eFYz39bEiQ" target="_blank



Thanks for everyones advice.
Image
User avatar
Donn
6 valves
6 valves
Posts: 5977
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:58 pm
Location: Seattle, ☯

Re: Makita chainsaw floods out

Post by Donn »

That's all very nice, but I have to say, I'm very disappointed that this chainsaw video is set to electric guitar and bass, no bass trombone or baritone saxophone at all. What do they know about music? Nothing, apparently.
Post Reply