F-Tuba

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Rick Denney
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Re: F-Tuba

Post by Rick Denney »

PMeuph wrote:This opens up another debate that is not really related to the OP, but is the only point of a degree to get marketable skills.
A reasonable question much discussed on this forum. I rather agree that education is not about getting a job, but to get educated. On the other hand, the degree program really ought to provide a real education to support that argument, and a performance degree (particularly a master's in performance or a DMA--vs. a Ph.D.) might have a strong training component that really ought to point to marketable skills.

If I have a degree in physics or mathematics, I can go in a lot of directions with that. But if my degree is in music performance, I don't have so many directions on the horizon.

But I agree that people ought to be allowed to study whatever they want as long as their checks don't bounce. College is time for the long pants.

Rick "a little tired of listening to college students complain about paying so much for what they act like they don't want" Denney
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Re: F-Tuba

Post by MartyNeilan »

bloke wrote:update:

I just threw my ol' B&S Symphonie in the ravine and covered it up with a truckload o' busted up concrete. I'm buyin' me a JEEMINEHEART !!!! Image
Can I borrow your pickax?
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Re: F-Tuba

Post by bisontuba »

bloke wrote:update:

I just threw my ol' B&S Symphonie in the ravine and covered it up with a truckload o' busted up concrete. I'm buyin' me a JEEMINEHEART !!!! Image
:D
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Re: F-Tuba

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Rick Denney wrote:College is time for the long pants.

Rick "a little tired of listening to college students complain about paying so much for what they act like they don't want" Denney
Actually, I kind of don't care. I have been out of college for less than 10 years, and I'm starting to really see how unimportant it is to have things figured out during or after college. Frankly, I see a lot of people whose career lives are kind of a wash between 22 and 30, and it sort of doesn't matter. Those people actually seem to have a better sense of reality and seem to be happier where they are when they DO start a career...and not just end up 10 years into it because it's what they thought they wanted to do when they were 18.

Be a music major. Own it. Work your *** off. If you make it into something when you're 22, awesome! If you don't, you're only 22. That's SO young. Yes, you might have some debt. But get yourself a job, live within your means, and you'll do just fine.

Rick is right that other majors like math and physics open more doors, but as a math major, I would probably recommend it just as much as people recommend music performance.
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Re: F-Tuba

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bort wrote:Actually, I kind of don't care. I have been out of college for less than 10 years, and I'm starting to really see how unimportant it is to have things figured out during or after college. Frankly, I see a lot of people whose career lives are kind of a wash between 22 and 30, and it sort of doesn't matter. Those people actually seem to have a better sense of reality and seem to be happier where they are when they DO start a career...and not just end up 10 years into it because it's what they thought they wanted to do when they were 18.

Be a music major. Own it. Work your *** off. If you make it into something when you're 22, awesome! If you don't, you're only 22. That's SO young. Yes, you might have some debt. But get yourself a job, live within your means, and you'll do just fine.
I don't disagree at all. My complaint was mostly with programs that are training-oriented when they are supposed to be education-oriented. And there is a fundamental difference between the objectives of training and education. When we expect education to provide training, we undermine the value of both--the best training happens on the job, and those job skills will become obsolete and will have to be relearned usually several times (or continuously) in the work that most people do. But the education will give them the tools to do that (or to create the new technologies that drive the need for those new skills).

Part of the reason colleges veer their programs in the training direction is the expectation by students that they be able to get a high-end job the day after they graduate, and the (even more unrealistic) expectation by employers that the education accomplishes what should be included in their training program. Most employers used to have training programs for new hires that lasted at least six months, and often longer. Now, they expect colleges to do that for them. That's asking a cat to do a dog's job.

Music performance programs seem to be more in the training direction than are many other university courses of study--that was my point with the comparison to math and physics.

Rick "an old disccussion" Denney
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Re: F-Tuba

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Doc wrote:I was a music performance major years ago. What I learned and experienced helped me greatly, but the application of it all, at least in a real world sense, happened on the job.
Or with one's private teacher.

I would expect skills on the primary instrument to be the subject of one's lessons, not the subject of the education. Both may happen at the same time, but they are different. Anyone might attend a college for an education and study with a pro at the same time to learn performance skills. They might even study wtih a pro outside that university.

For every working activity, both education and training have roles in preparing the worker. For the trades, the balance may strongly favor the training, and for the so-called learned professions, it may favor education (or not). That's why the trades used to propagate themselves using apprenticeship rather than college, with the idea that sufficient education happened in primary and secondary school.

A conservatory is a training institution for music, presumably reserved for those who are destined to be performers. They provide a more specialized education to the training, perhaps, but people who don't have the potential to make it as performers should have trouble getting into a conservatory in the first place. Arnold Jacobs, an early student at Curtis, never expressed his time there as a "college education", at least not in what I've read. But it was training at the highest level, and it was more of what somebody like him needed. I would expect a conservatory to be rather demanding of the students, including showing up with the appropriate equipment for their presumed training program, just as an apprentice carpenter is required to show up with good tools.

Of course, Jacobs, being Jacobs, supplemented that training with considerable education on his own. Most people who desire education are able, somehow or other, to obtain it.

But what tools would a physicist or lawyer show up with? They are expected to build an extensive library of theoretical thinking techniques, which they will apply to problems during training and practice. The lawyer will spend his undergraduate days learning language skills, history, government, and other liberal arts--there is no undergraduate law degree of which I'm aware. Then, the budding lawyer will attend law school for more specialized training, but the entrance requirement for law school is a good education, well-achieved. Another example: a fresh engineering graduate is still expected to gain four years of experience before he or she can become licensed to practice without supervision. Those four years are there to provide the training to supplement the education in the sciences and in the liberal arts that engineers should have.

Is a performing musician a better person for having a good education? Of course. Are they more likely to win an audition, compared to, say, spending that four years studying with a top performing pro? Probably not. Nobody asks them for an essay or a speech during the audition.

It is probably not reasonable to expect someone entering a college education to walk in with the sorts of tools one might need for advanced training.

Rick "recognizing with some dismay that many non-professional jobs now require college training--a true oxymoron" Denney
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Re: F-Tuba

Post by eupher61 »

BACK TO THE OP'S TOPIC: (I know, why?)

Have the young lady contact the instructor. A "professional quality instrument" is not necessarily an F tuba. Unless the teacher is French, as in Paris, and that's all that is familiar to the teacher.

and, besides, what does "be prepared to purchase" mean? Now? 2 years down the road? And, define "professional quality"? Plenty of pro players use a YBB 103 (small student tuba) for dixieland gigs.

Something doesn't smell right with this scenario. Please let us know what the situation turns out to be, in reality.
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