Chinese CC tubas

[Eflatdoubler]

Hello,
I was curious if anyone has played the chinese CC tubas from either Wessex, Jim Laabs, M&M Tubas, or Mack Brass and if you noticed any differences between them (specifically how any differences (secret or not)) have affected how they play). I have also seen that Jim Laabs has a piston valve CC tuba, and would love to find out more info.

This is not meant to start a discussion of other tuba brands to get (new or used). I am pretty set on one of these clones, just trying to find one that is easy to play for a doubler from people who have actually played these

I have been playing a CC Cerveny piggy, and would like a fifth valve and a smaller bore. The piston tuba is very attractive to me, so long as it has good pitch (I am fine moving the 1st valve slide- but I don't want a juggling act with all the others), so any feedback on these (I have seen it referred to as the Jin Bao 450) versus the Mirafone 186/188 clone would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you again for the help

[bisontuba]

Many treads on this topic!!
Stay away from the piston CC JinBao-if you on this route, go with the 186 clone.
Again, see previous threads.
Mark

[Eflatdoubler]

thank you for the advice. I have been reading the threads, but they always seem to go off track
it seems everyone says their model is slightly different and everyone else has a standard Jin Bao...

I was hoping to hear about any differences (for better or worse) from people who have played more than one brand.
Also, what is the opinion of the different finishes in regard to durability and playability? Lacquer, silver or nickel?
My trombones are always standard yellow brass, and my euphonium is silver.

I am not an acidic player, but I do want something that is going to last, without being too heavy and deadening the sound.
Feel free to post or send me a PM- thanks!

[MikeMason]

and,tubatodd is searching for a piggy to buy...

[Eflatdoubler]

Any thoughts on who preps the horns well? I am waiting to hear from Mack Brass, and was very impressed with his youtube videos.
Wessex Tubas has been great about emailing me and answering my questions. They will have some tubas towards the end of August.

I received an email from M&M and they said their tubas are from their own specs as they are professional tuba players and have been selling this model successfully for 8 years while the other brands are Jin Bao 410 CC tubas. They have them in stock and also repair parts.

I would love to hear from those who have them in either lacquer or silver, and how are they holding up?

I would like to get something sooner rather than later to see how I like it in the pit for the show I am playing. I have another month left. If I do prefer it I will be selling my piggy (thank you for letting me know tubatodd is looking for a piggy).

I will of course wait if I hear that there is a particular brand that has a slightly different leadpipe/bell/etc. that makes their model superior, or if their is some must have clone on the horizon (besson 995 clone anyone ? )

[Tubaman2365]

Any thoughts on who preps the horns well?
I would love to hear from those who have them in either lacquer or silver, and how are they holding up?

Well, I can speak for Dillon, they do more than just ship it out as is, and it makes a big difference in how it plays. I recently sold my 410 to get a Miraphone 1291 but the dillon 410 served me well as a come back type player without breaking the bank. I can't really speak for the other merchants, but I highly recommend Dillon.

As for durability, I had mine for roughly 18 months and other than routine maintenance I did not have to do much. I did have the valves vented (I highly recommend this) and two of the valves swedged. It is a very durable intstrument IMO as long as you maintain it properly.

Hope this helps.

[bisontuba]

Gemeinhardt is/will be soon selling a CC that is similar to the Besson 995. Mark Jones here on TubeNet seems to have first hand knowledge of them.

Refer to http://www.barthsbrassblog.com" target="_blank

The production piston BBb & CC tuba should arrive at Gemeinhardt +/- Labor Day-ish.......

Mark

[Michael Bush]

If I were you, I would go with Mack Brass or Wessex. The others you (the OP) mention are problematic in one way or another. If you want to know exactly how, the search feature will be your friend.

This is the Chinese CC to buy:

http://www.wessex-tubas.co.uk/products/cc-rotary" target="_blank

http://www.mackbrass.com/MACK-TU410L_4_4_CC_Tuba.php" target="_blank

You will not be glad you bought the others.

Any dealer who tells you their version of this horn is unique or even different in any way from the others richly deserves your most skeptical response. If you can get them to say exactly, specifically how theirs is different, you will be the first.

EDIT: Thinking about some of the other dealers that have been mentioned by other posters, I'm sure you can sort that out. Those are at a different price point that would give you other options as well. For horns that are under $2k, I think what I said above is right.

[Wyvern]

The valves are spread pretty wide on these.

Improving the spacing to fit normal size hands is an easy fix. We do that at Wessex Tubas routinely on every one before selling.

For differences, I know Mack Brass and us both get from JinBao - don't know about other suppliers. I know of at least one other Chinese factory that makes the rotary CC.

A couple of real differences on Wessex Tubas ones are all the CC (in fact all models of tubas) I am ordering for the USA market have no marching hooks, or lyre block as standard (only fitted if customer specifies). I have never understood why anyone would want marching hooks on a CC tuba (?) and of course in the US you usually use sousaphones for marching anyway. Also we are getting fitted with gold brass leadspipe as standard.

Other models I am getting the tuning improved by adjusting slide lengths, but the rotary CC is so in-tune already, no improvements are needed

[Michael Bush]

A couple of real differences on Wessex Tubas

Cool, Jonathan. You get the prize for being the first one to say *exactly* what is different. I'm not surprised at all. Good for you.

[Wyvern]

Hook rings are good for stand up stuff (German band, etc.). I'd actually like to have one of the 186 copies for this very type of situation where the horn may get clanged and I have to move around and/or stand up. Too bad you're deleting the hook rings.

We will supply fitted on request, but I just think most people would prefer without hooks, so that is the Wessex default. As far as possible tubas will be supplied to suit customer requirements - for example longer main tuning slide is possible for individual who blows sharp. It is quite something that budget tubas are available so customised!

[Wyvern]

Sounds like a good subject for a TubeNet poll...

Let's go for it!

[MackBrass]

Modifications I have are as follows
410 CC, I don't touch them because the are great just the way the are.
Based on customer feedback I adjust the spacing on finger paddlels on all horn.

831 Bass trombone, I adjust the Db-Gb finger paddle with a bend to make it more accessable. Without it you need a giant sized hand to reach it.

200 model BBb, although I have sold many of these with out complaints, I do have the main tuning slide lengthened as you have to have it pulled all the way out to get it to tune to A440. Whomever had this copied did not know what they were doing with a short main slide. The new improvement now works great. Also, if anyone has an issue with the pitch being too high and owns one of these, either purchased from me or someone else, they can contact me for a new fully assembled main tuning slide that replaces the older shorter one, I have 20 in stock for this model.

210BBb, I don't touch them as they are really good they way the are. If you like the hirschbrunner BB, you will like this as well.

1150 Euphonium has a gold trim option that looks pretty nice I have ordered plenty of these but they are not big sellers so now I only order them in silver, never in nickel.

The marching euphonium only comes with a small shank receiver, I have them made with a large shank. All other instruments are fine but if someone wants something special they can get it.

Currently I am considering a goldbrass CC 410, we shall see about this one.

Before any instrument is shipped out, they are checked from top to bottom and played, this ensures no issues later on and has kept my returns down to only two in the past 18 months as I try to place the right horn with the right person.

Options are available but to say built to certain specs without the details is wrong and frankly, BS. I would rather say that they are built with certain modifications are in order as these are just modifications. Building and changing the specs of a horn? Don't understand that one. Modifying a horn like above or like what Jonathan does, that makes scence as long as it benifits the customers needs.

Tom

[goodson]

Just curious what the 410 CC in goldbrass would run without the strap hooks?

[MartyNeilan]

Currently I am considering a goldbrass CC 410, we shall see about this one.

To me the 410 that I had under a different name had a more "covered" sound than the original 'phone. Good for holding together in a large ensemble, but lost a little of the 'phone "zing." Much the same effect as with an entire goldbrass vs. yellow brass tuba. Makes me wonder if a goldbrass 410 would be taking that a little too far.

[bisontuba]

Currently I am considering a goldbrass CC 410, we shall see about this one.

To me the 410 that I had under a different name had a more "covered" sound than the original 'phone. Good for holding together in a large ensemble, but lost a little of the 'phone "zing." Much the same effect as with an entire goldbrass vs. yellow brass tuba. Makes me wonder if a goldbrass 410 would be taking that a little too far.

Hi-
Having owned a 410 in both lacquer and silver, IMHO, the silver gave the 410 the 'zing' that I felt the lacquered 410 was missing--just one person's opinion.
mark

[MartyNeilan]

Currently I am considering a goldbrass CC 410, we shall see about this one.

To me the 410 that I had under a different name had a more "covered" sound than the original 'phone. Good for holding together in a large ensemble, but lost a little of the 'phone "zing." Much the same effect as with an entire goldbrass vs. yellow brass tuba. Makes me wonder if a goldbrass 410 would be taking that a little too far.

Hi-
Having owned a 410 in both lacquer and silver, IMHO, the silver gave the 410 the 'zing' that I felt the lacquered 410 was missing--just one person's opinion.
mark

Exactly - which makes me wonder is a lacquered goldbrass version would take it a little too far in the opposite direction where it might to start to become undesirable. I guess the only way to know for sure is to order one and find out!

[MackBrass]

Gold brass is in the works, it may be the whole horn or just the bell as the final cost will dictate the direction.

more to come,

Tom

[Leto Cruise]

Missouri, stop your trolling. The Big Mouth Brass tubas are excellent instruments despite being made in China. For what it's worth, many American products are of horrible quality. You're being very ignorant by assuming that just because a product is made in a certain country, it automatically will be "cheap quality". The Chinese are capable of making excellent quality products just as Americans are capable of bad workmanship. Perhaps this is a personal/racial thing against China?

[Leto Cruise]

Perhaps this is a personal/racial thing against China?

Why did you just willfully choose to throw the race card? Can't it be political? Just curious where your head is, sir. Not everything is about race, and it is offensive to read nonsense that suggests otherwise. (By the way, you might be interested to know my personal racial makeup. Please do not even TRY to make me out to be a bigot.) The Chinese in this context are a nation-state that practice a particular form of government known for certain behaviors. Please try to see this for what it is and not for whatever fight you seem to be spoiling for.

It may well be political, but this Missouri guy seems obsessed at trashing the BMB horns that he has never even played himself, and the fact that they're Chinese made in particular. So much hatred and posts aimed towards defaming these tubas suggests to me that he either a.) Has nothing better to do with his time or b.) Has a personal problem against China