Question for horn mod/builders...

[Ben]

I have a question for those of you who may have some experience with modding...

Has anyone grafted a 186 valve set onto a 184? (70's era)

I ask, because while I love my 184, I find it a bit stuffy and it tends to back up when I want some volume. I am used to large bore horns of my Alexes... Should I pursue this idea some, or just look for a fabled 3/4 Alex, or a small Rudy?

[TheHatTuba]

or just look for a fabled 3/4 Alex, or a small Rudy?

DP has his Alex 173 for sale...

[Ben]

The 173 is a 4/4, not the 3/4 Alex I was referring to, they are rare and I have only heard of them, never actually seen or heard on IRL.

I really want a small tuba for a niche application (close mic), and Mira's shine in that arena. I guess a piggy might also work... But I haven't played one of them either.

[bububassboner]

I dont see why not. Use the 186 leadpipe, valve bock, and tuning slide. The little dog leg after the tuning slide is the only part that would need to be custom done. I say do it. Bracing should be super easy with only minor, if any, changes needed. If you don't like it you can always put the old valve block back on.

[TheHatTuba]

The 173 is a 4/4, not the 3/4 Alex I was referring to, they are rare and I have only heard of them, never actually seen or heard on IRL.

I really want a small tuba for a niche application (close mic), and Mira's shine in that arena. I guess a piggy might also work... But I haven't played one of them either.

You could try a 185 (same size as the rudy), BBC has a pretty silver one.

[bort]

Ditto about the 185 at BBC. I'm curious though, how different are the valve blocks in these tubas? I always assumed the valves were the same, only with a different body and bell on the tuba.

[TheHatTuba]

Ditto about the 185 at BBC. I'm curious though, how different are the valve blocks in these tubas? I always assumed the valves were the same, only with a different body and bell on the tuba.

Different for each, except the 186 and 188. 184 is ~.71", 185 is ~.74" 186/8 is .77" and the 190 is currently .835" but the older one may have been different.

[Ben]

You could try a 185 (same size as the rudy), BBC has a pretty silver one.

Hoping to keep the same compactness of sound, I'd like the keep the bugle as small as possible.

Acclimation could be the issue.

The truth is I spend less than 10% of my time on it: it is a pick up and go horn for any closed mic pop gigs. The 184 only backs up at the louder volumes. Curious there no issues on my F 18.5 mm bore, but the LP/MP and shorter tube length undoubtable contribute.

The little dog leg after the tuning slide is the only part that would need to be custom done. I say do it. Bracing should be super easy with only minor, if any, changes needed. If you don't like it you can always put the old valve block back on.

I might explore this if I had access to a cheap 186 leadpipe and valveset.

Look for an instrument that does what you need from the 184 and is friendly to the rest of your tubas.

When you have to switch to it having adjusted to the other tubas, it requires accommodations. Those accommodations are what you are feeling.

You already know all of this...

yeah... and it would be less of a headache in the long run...

[kingconn]

If you've got an old mouthpiece, try opening up the throat to 3/8" and see how much more air you can move through that thing.

[Lee Stofer]

I know of no one who has put the valveset of a Mirafone 186 onto a Mirafone 184.

My take is that smaller tubas generally are more work to play than larger instruments, although they can perform admirably. Before I bought a 5/4 Rudolf Meinl (in reality, a full 6/4 tuba), for years I played a 3/4 Rudi (pretty-much a 4/4 tuba). I can tell you now, as much as I like a 3/4 Rudi, the 5/4 is easier to play.

There needs to be a balance of elements in an instrument, and a small tuba with a large-bore valveset can be a disaster, as practical as a Mini Cooper with a V-8 engine.

I would suggest that the best, most profitable route is to take advantage of the amazing human ability to learn and accomodate the strong- and weak points of any instrument and make a go of it. In other words, if you use the Mirafone, you need to spend more than 10% of your time with it to have any sort of comfort zone there.

[iiipopes]

What bloke said. If the horn is "stuffy," that is a resonance problem: leak, obstruction, brace at an antinode, etc. Changing out the valve block will not help.

Look at a river delta and why it deposits its silt: once the breath clears the narrowest part of the throat, the expansion of the bore drops velocity of the airflow to almost zero. So it doesn't matter if it is a .689 bore or a .835 bore through the valves, it's going to play in a similar manner depending on the bracing, routes and bends of the tubing, etc. What the bore will do is change the color of the sound a little bit.

If you don't like the stuffiness, it's time to get a different tuba.