spot the tuba!

[przxqgl]

i am a brasswind repair technician, among other things... however, i usually work on woodwinds (despite being a tubist and trombonist), so i don't know an awful lot about brass instruments...

other than, you know, how to play them...

i recently received a Conn C tuba as payment for repairing a guy's ugly E♭ sousaphone (it was held together with duct tape - pictures here - http://flic.kr/s/aHsjysBKGP" target="_blank ). when i gave him the E♭ sousaphone back, in playable condition, he gave me this wonderful Conn C tuba, which i have been playing the hell out of...

problem is, i don't know what it is...

it has the name Conn engraved (well, "stamped", really) on the bell, and the serial number (762417) indicates that it was made some time between 1958 and 1959, but the model number is nowhere to be found.

i think it's either a 56J or a 5J, but i don't know.

it can be seen here - http://flic.kr/p/bJGmxn" target="_blank - along side my Elkhorn E♭ tuba. more pictures are available, if needed.

do any of you other tuba nuts know how to tell the difference? i'd be obliged if anyone could tell me...

thanks!

[Michael Bush]

Looks like a 2J or a 3J to me. (The 5J is a BBb.)

[przxqgl]

okay, how do you tell?

the conn web site doesn't say anything about the 2J/3J, and the 5J is (as you so aptly pointed out) BB♭...

[Michael Bush]

If the mp receiver is original it should have the model number engraved on it, I believe.

You can tell right away it's not a 56J because it doesn't have that funky outrigger-looking (4th valve?) tuning slide.

Someone with more lore than me will have to say how you tell a 2J from a 3J just by looking at it.

[przxqgl]

If the mp receiver is original it should have the model number engraved on it, I believe.

well, the mp receiver is apparently not original, because it does not have anything engraved on it...

although if it has been replaced, it was by someone with a great deal more experience with a soldering torch than me, because it doesn't have any burned lacquer, or bare spots, (in fact it looks like it has all the original lacquer) and it doesn't have funky-looking solder joints...

[Dan Schultz]

The horn appears to be the CC version of the 4J. Most likely a 2J. The 4th valve slide laying next to the bell is the similarity I recognize.

The Conn Loyalist website is not very good at identifying these horns because most of those model numbers were 'recycled'.

[EdFirth]

The fourth valve configuration and the silver highlights. The C version of a 4J is a 2J. The 3and 5 J's were a later incarnation that were actually built by Conn. The 2 and 4J's, from what I understand were built For Conn by Olds. Right? Ed

[J.c. Sherman]

The fourth valve configuration and the silver highlights. The C version of a 4J is a 2J. The 3and 5 J's were a later incarnation that were actually built by Conn. The 2 and 4J's, from what I understand were built For Conn by Olds. Right? Ed

Yup... this is a 2J... one of the best all around 3/4s made ever... I LOVE these things.

That Eb sousa's the bigger story - what a wreck that came in as!

[Alex C]

The 2 and 4J's, from what I understand were built For Conn by Olds. Right? Ed

During an earlier discussion on this, I talked to a longtime Conn artist/rep. I also talked to a sales rep who was a tuba player so he was interested in tubas. They both said no Conn tubas were built by Olds. Conn did use Olds tooling in the 2J & 3J but nobody else built them.

Other good folks learned differently so I guess it depends on what source you believe. I believe my guys.

I don't know what tuba this is. I thought the 2J/3J models weren't built until the mid 60's, but the (unreliable) serial number puts it earlier. Is mid 1950's when Conn build that model? Looks like a 2J.

[Uncle Buck]

The serial numbers on the 2J absolutely do not match up with the published Conn lists tying serial number to manufacturing date.

There are some threads with pretty detailed discussion of the history and manufacture of that model. Because TubeNet won't let me use "2J" as a search term, I'm having trouble finding them. Maybe somebody smarter than me can find and link them.

[przxqgl]

Yup... this is a 2J... one of the best all around 3/4s made ever... I LOVE these things.

so the tuba on the left - http://flic.kr/p/bJGmxn" target="_blank - is a 2J...

thanks! i appreciate the help...

and i love it, too... it makes an awesome roar in the low register. the only difficulty i've had is learning the C fingerings, and that is primarily because of my brain injury - http://przxqgl.hybridelephant.com/what- ... ned-to-me/" target="_blank

That Eb sousa's the bigger story - what a wreck that came in as!

no s#!t... and it's currently being played by http://www.tspae.com/ its owner... so everybody's happy!

[przxqgl]

The Conn Loyalist website is not very good at identifying these horns because most of those model numbers were 'recycled'.

the conn loyalist site also says that the 2J is a top-action, 3-valve EE♭ - http://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/ConnArticle32.html" target="_blank

[Michael Bush]

As time allows I'm working on a web site that will live at oldtubas.com (nothing there now, so don't bother clicking) to try to sort out some of that stuff. Since I think about it so much anyway, I may as well think about it out loud and in public, I reckon. It won't take that much more time. Or maybe it will.

It's been a couple of weeks since I bought the domain and paid for a year of hosting, but ever since I've been moving my kids to various colleges. I'll get it up before too awful long,

[przxqgl]

As time allows I'm working on a web site that will live at oldtubas.com (nothing there now, so don't bother clicking) to try to sort out some of that stuff. Since I think about it so much anyway, I may as well think about it out loud and in public, I reckon. It won't take that much more time. Or maybe it will.

good luck... i'm sure it's way more complex than any of us realises... which is why there's so much chaos now.

now, the question is what is the tuba on the right? http://flic.kr/p/bJGmxn" target="_blank

it says Elkhorn on the bell, and it has been modified at least a couple of times. the lead pipe is definitely not original, and the 3rd valve slide is suspicious... the serial number is 83250...

[J.c. Sherman]

Pan American Eb.

[J.c. Sherman]

Pan American Eb... cousin to the 14J.

[przxqgl]

Pan American Eb... cousin to the 14J.

i don't know if it's a pan american... it says "Elkhorn Band Inst. Co. - Elkhart, Ind. - USA" which is actually engraved (not stamped) on the bell, and all of the pictures of pan american tubas that i can find don't come anywhere close to matching what i've got...

and google comes up with nothing for "Elkhorn Band Inst. Co." but it has all sorts of links to"Elkhart Band Inst. Co."...

[PMeuph]

Here's a picture of a Pan American Eb. It's quite similar to yours.

http://www.micgillette.com/equipment.php" target="_blank


Pan American was an instrument maker back in the 30's. They were considered pro instruments at the time. However, they were bought out by Conn who ended up using the name for student model horns. There are more Conn Pan American horns than just Pan American horns.

[przxqgl]

Here's a picture of a Pan American Eb. It's quite similar to yours.

http://www.micgillette.com/equipment.php" target="_blank

it is, in fact, very similar...

Pan American was an instrument maker back in the 30's. They were considered pro instruments at the time. However, they were bought out by Conn who ended up using the name for student model horns.

i know they've been around for a long time, but my tuba doesn't say pan american anywhere... and it does say "Elkhorn Band Inst. Co."... maybe it was made by pan american and "Elkhorn Band Inst. Co." was a distributor...

like my tenor horn, which is stamped "J.W. Pepper" but was actually made by distin...

Elkhorn, Wisconsin

actually, it says "Elkhorn Band Inst. Co. - Elkhart, Ind. - USA" on the bell, but it appears to be a pan american...