Besson Model 225 Recording Bass

[Lil Pete]

I bought this instrument used in 1966. I did not like the Besson mouthpiece (13) that came with the tuba, and use my gold Conn Helleberg (bought in 1965) with a brass adapter. Of all the tubas I have played, this combination has the best, clear, rich, mellow sound in the BB-flat lower range. I am past my tuba playing years now, and I am considering parting with this instrument. I have searched all over and cannot find another to compare for value purposes. I live in a small town in New Mexico. I don't know if anyone is looking for a 50 year old Besson 4-valve BB-flat with a 24" recording detachable bell. It is in very good condition---original lacquer still shines everywhere but where I held it for 46 years. It has some minor, small dents from too many years without a case, but looks great. It's serial number is 350968, I suspect it was built in 1962 or 1963. I have the original catalog that came with it, but it was printed in 1959. Any information anyone can share with me would be greatly appreciated.

[Heavy_Metal]

hrender, you're right- those Bessons have been on eBay for a while, just like a couple Martins and a Conn 24J- none of which come with cases, which is probably one reason they haven't sold.

LilPete, it's sad to hear you're looking to hang it up, but can you post some pictures of your Besson?

[imperialbari]

Photos always are very welcome! I
n this case I especially would like to see documentation of the Helleberg-to-small-receiver adapter.

Klaus

[Lil Pete]

Thanks for the information. I will take some pictures this weekend of the horn, mouthpieces, and adapter.

Pete

[Lil Pete]

3622-21_R.jpg

[Lil Pete]

A few more pictures.

[Lil Pete]

Here are a couple of pages from the 1958 catalog.

[Heavy_Metal]

I agree- it's a beauty, and it looks like you've taken good care of it, so it should play as well as it looks. But you look so happy holding it - sure you want to let it go?

[Lil Pete]

To Hal, no problem seeing around the bell. I turned it out for the picture to see more of the tubing. The adapter for the Conn-Helleberg mouthpiece also has a slight bend which gives me a "better view". I have enjoyed playing this horn for 46 years, and the quality of the sound is equal to the best tubas made today.

To Frank, you are right, I really hate parting with it. Playing this tuba has given me a lot of pleasure over the years. The decision to stop playing was forced on me for medical reasons. I decided if I could not perform anymore, I would rather let someone else use this horn than to retire it and hang it on the wall.

[Steve Marcus]

When I first learned to play tuba, the school band had 4-valve BBb convertible tubas that were also being used for marching; the 20Ks had been (in 2012 hindsight) mistakenly buried in a closet, deemed as "obsolete." The convertible horns were functional as concert horns, but certainly nothing exciting.

Another school band came to visit our school. The 2 tubas that they brought were "huge" Besson bell-front horns, about the same size as the pictured Model 225, that they rested in the big Wenger "Tuba Tamers." I was allowed to play one during an after-dinner informal reading session. I had never played a tuba with such a powerful low F. But I recall that these BBb tubas had 4 top-action valves, not 3 + 1. Are the years distorting my memory? Did Besson ever make such a tuba?

[Heavy_Metal]

Something like this, except with four valves?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Besson-BBb-Reco ... 27ac6f3069" target="_blank

[Lil Pete]

Hi Steve, in the 1958 catalog, the only 4 valve tubas were of the 3+1, 8-10 automatic compensating models.

Pete

[Lil Pete]

Frank, thanks for showing that listing on ebay. Based on what you have seen, what would you estimate my tuba is worth in today's market ? If anyone else has a guestimate, I would appreciate it. I have not bought or sold a tuba for many, many years.

Thanks,
Pete

[Steve Marcus]

Hi Steve, in the 1958 catalog, the only 4 valve tubas were of the 3+1, 8-10 automatic compensating models.

Pete

Then the Besson that I encountered at that time must have been a 3-banger. I know that there was not a side-mounted valve. Fingering 1-3 must still have made for an impressive low F.

[Tom Coffey]

That is a beautiful tuba.

[Heavy_Metal]

Frank, thanks for showing that listing on ebay. Based on what you have seen, what would you estimate my tuba is worth in today's market ?

Thanks,
Pete

Well Pete, I'm really not the one to make a final determination. But you asked, so I'll do my best to answer.

Your 225 was obviously at or near the top of the Besson tuba line in its day, especially since it's a compensating model. And unless I'm seriously mistaken, I'd say you've taken good care of it. Plus, there are those who are partial to Besson tubas, just like there are York, Martin, King, Conn, Mirafone, Alexander, B&S (or any brand you might name) aficionados. Also, there are those who consider an older horn more desirable than a new one. And a bell-front tuba works better than a standard upright when playing in open-air or other acoustically-challenged situations. This is why I have a Conn 20J as my second/backup horn.

On the other hand, the fact that it's a bell-front tuba may limit its use depending on where you play and who the conductor is. Some conductors just don't like bell-fronts. Also, there are those who consider a newer horn more desirable than an older one, and maybe there are those who don't favor Bessons.

The buyer you're looking for is someone who appreciates older Besson tubas, values the compensating feature, wants a bell-front, and is willing to pay for the privilege.

So here are some more examples. I know nothing about these particular horns or their sellers, and they're obviously different from yours, this is just what's showing up on the bay:

Conn 25J (listed as 24J which is the bell-front version) "completely restored" whatever that means, starting bid $3100, Buy if Now $3410, cases an extra $1000, no Best Offer option, no takers at this writing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONN-24J-BBb-4- ... 27ca789447" target="_blank

Mirafone 186 bell-front, non-compensating, "just reconditioned", starting bid $3,970, no case, no "Buy it Now" or "Best Offer" option, no takers so far: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Miraphone-BBb-1 ... 4846ad7b9d" target="_blank

Martin Mammoth- this one is a 3-banger but the price does include cases. Starting bid $2650, Buy it Now $3400. No takers so far. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Martin-Mammoth- ... 4abb6a2bd9" target="_blank

Another Besson bell-front 3-banger, seller says "We restored this super tuba a few years ago", no case, Buy it Now $2500, no Best Offers yet. http://www.ebay.com/itm/BESSON-4-4-BBb- ... 5ae7b6c2e8" target="_blank

None of these tubas are compensating models, that would obviously add to the price.

I'd watch these and similar auctions, to see what they eventually go for. This should give you some idea of what a fair asking price would be for yours.

Naturally if someone with more experience pricing and selling tubas weighs in here, I would say their opinion is worth much more than mine.

And when you're ready, put it in our For Sale section first.

Personally, I'd love to have that horn, but at this point I probably couldn't afford it. I hope you find the right buyer.

[PMeuph]

Frank, thanks for showing that listing on ebay. Based on what you have seen, what would you estimate my tuba is worth in today's market ?

Thanks,
Pete

So here are some more examples. I know nothing about these particular horns or their sellers, and they're obviously different from yours, this is just what's showing up on the bay:
...

There are also currently two Besson 994 tubas at Dillons priced at $2695 & $2995.


http://www.dillonmusic.com/c-1013-tubas.aspx" target="_blank

They have been there for at least 6 months...

[Lil Pete]

Thank you Frank, I really appreciate your thoughts and expertise. I will follow your advice and post it on this web site. I wish I had found this forum years ago! The knowledge and experience of all involved in this website is incredible. It's hard to find anyone to share your passion for the tuba when you are the only one within 100 miles. Just reading all the postings and responses is enjoyable. Thanks also to PMeuph. I haven't had the chance to play a newer Besson to compare it with my own. Seeing all the wonderful instruments on this web page makes me wish I could have tried them all.

Pete