My New B&H EEb - Some Questions

[PMeuph]

After reading several dozen posts about a "jack of all trades" tuba on tubenet, I finally bought a B&H EEb with a 19" bell off of eBay two weeks ago. I finally received it this week and after a thorough cleaning I was able to start playing with it.

Truthfully, I've been very pleased with this horn, the tuning seems decent (I can get it to play at 440 with the tuning slide about 1/4"), the low range is really easy, and even though the tone has a bit less "core" than the 981 I tried before, it's stills sounds really good. Also, the valves are in great shape and are lighting fast.

I paid more than I would have to buy a clone, but I feel that the resale value is pretty good on these. (The clones are not yet a great deal in Canada, as the shipping costs and the taxes at customs usually add $500 to the horn)

Here's a picture from the eBay listing.


Some questions:

1. Is the ball on the bottom bow soft soldered? (ie. can I remove it with a cheap propane torch?)

2. Are there any arguments, besides mouthpiece selection, for swapping the receiver?

3. Does anyone have any suggestions about fixing the wooden case that came with it? There are several cracks and the joints seem to be loose. It's one of those 1/4" plywood cases with virtually no padding. (I was thinking of getting a boating company to use some fibreglass on the joints, but someone might have a better idea)

[imperialbari]

Never heard about the ball-buster being unsoldered. Some have sawed it off.

If you can find a 981 replacement leadpipe, you should have an instrument with the 981 proportions. Maybe the main tuning slide will need a trim.

If the case isn’t structurally sound, I wouldn’t invest in cosmetics. Phil Parker of London used to retail a case for the 981/982 Eb basses. It looked like being in the style of fibre shell cello cases. However it isn’t on their website right now.

Klaus

[sousaphone68]

Klaus has answered all your questions so all I can say is congrats on the new tuba its condition proves that if you can cope with transporting your tuba in a hard case it will keep it looks longer.
A clone case will give good protection to your tuba they are big and awkard and you may be able to find one cheap as most younger buyers use a gig bag as they have to car pool or use public transport.

[Wyvern]

Congratulations on you 'new' tuba - I am sure you will find the EEb very flexible in use.

I believe the ball is silver soldered to the plate which will be then soft soldered onto the bottom bow. So you may be unsolder complete with plate, but most people just hacksaw off.

You may find it worthwhile changing the mouthpiece receiver to take standard modern mouthpieces

[opus37]

The mouthpiece selection is the primary reason to change receivers. You may run into tuning problems if you do that so have someone who knows what their doing make the change. The Sellsmanberger/Houser Imperial does come in the small shank and woud work nicely with this horn. You then have the option of several rims to fit you and your playing style.

[MikeW]

By reputation, these instruments go flat when played with a large open throated mouthpiece.
Yours appears to play in tune for you, so maybe it's not broke and you don't need to fix it. You may, however, run into tuning problems if you switch to a more open mouthpiece (many players say the compensating tubas get stuffy at the low end, and need an open throat).

It has been claimed that fitting the mouthpipe from a Besson 981 to the Imperial makes a good instrument wonderful, but it also means changing to an American Standard sized receiver, and disturbing the interface between mouthpiece and instrument; In the current situation, this may open the door to tuning gremlins.

If the instrument plays flat with your eventual choice of mouthpiece, you may have to perform the Fletcher cut, which means removing up to 3 inches of tubing from the back-bow (1.5 inches from each side). If your instrument has the earlier design of back bow with parallel tubing at the ferrules, the cut is fairly straightforward; Given that you have a 19" bell, you are more likely to have the Sovereign-style bow (which is continuously conical end-to-end), so the taper has to be re-shaped after cutting, to fit the bow back into the ferrules - this is somewhat more time-consuming, but worked out just fine on my tuba. To figure out how much tubing to cut, remember that shortening an EEb by half an inch raises the pitch about 5 cents.

An alternative to the cut is fitting a Fletcher-style "straight" mouthpipe (if you can still get one), which is a few inches shorter than the existing Imperial/982 mouthpipe, requiring/allowing the mouthpiece to be mounted lower on the bell. Depending on you height, this may be uncomfortably low.

[J.c. Sherman]

1) The nutcracker is silver-solderd ("brazed") to that guard plate. The easiest solution is have the plate removed and a short guard wire installed in it's place; otherwise, you can see if someone can get it hot enough to fall off, then file and refit. I vote for option one.

2) You don't need to replace the receiver, but it's no big deal. The receiver for the YEB-321 Eb is a perfect match and you won't have interface problems. I used either a Miraphone C4 (TU23) for general playing, but later moved to a Yamaha "Self" replica for it. You can get serious horsepower out of these. My discovery was that the B&H didn't really care when I made the switch! Pitch was identical.

3) Light the case on fire; they are nearly impossible to repair, and you'll have a few minutes entertainment watching it burn. Look into either the contemporary case or a good gig bag from Cronkite or the like.

J.c.S.

[MikeW]

3) Light the case on fire; they are nearly impossible to repair, and you'll have a few minutes entertainment watching it burn. Look into either the contemporary case or a good gig bag from Cronkite or the like.

J.c.S.

On the subject of cases, does anyone know if any of the MTS cases will fit a 19" bell Imperial ?

I have seen adverts for a new case designed for a Besson 982 (which ought to fit an Imperial), but it was priced around $640 plus taxes and shipping - of course, some people buy gig bags and sell their hard cases, so you may get lucky with a used case.

In the meantime, I buy a $6 roll of black duct tape every year or two, and just live with ugly.

[AndyCat]

What's it say on the bell? I'm almost sure that's an Imperial body with a Sovereign bell.

[imperialbari]

1979 through 1982 there was a transitional model with the 19" bell combined with the old small receiver and with the ball buster. Engravings were inconsistent, like Besson Imperial, but to my knowledge never Sovereign. Same goes for the BBb.

Klaus

[PMeuph]

Thank you all for the replies! I have a new DW 3 mouthpiece so I'll wait until the rim gets dinged up before I switch out the receiver.

I took off the ball with a hack saw.



Here's picture of the logo.



I contacted a local company about a flight case so I will see if they get back to me...And if it is affordable. For the moment being, I can live with my over sized Protec gigbag and the wooden case. I've glued the seams with "No More Nails" and added some very stylish gray duct tape on it.

AS for the MTS cases, It would seem like the 1207 might fit (With some additional padding).
http://www.hornguys.com/tubacases.php" target="_blank

However, I just haven't seen one in Canada, and cases are large items to ship so shipping might be as much as the value of the case itself.

Maybe this one?
http://brassandwoodwind.ca/Mouthpieces/SKB385WTubaCase/" target="_blank

[MikeW]

1979 through 1982 there was a transitional model with the 19" bell combined with the old small receiver and with the ball buster. Engravings were inconsistent, like Besson Imperial, but to my knowledge never Sovereign. Same goes for the BBb.

That makes sense: My EEb dates to 1980, which is also the year I bought it new. It is engraved Boosey&Hawkes Imperial, and has B&H stays, caps, buttons etc., but the mouthpipe, valve-block, slides, branches, bows, and 19" bell all appear to be the same as the first-run Sovereign 982 (was there ever a B&H Sovereign, or were they all Bessons ?). It must be an intermediate model because it still has the small-Euro receiver, the nut-buster, and the old style pistons and valve-guides. I have the impression that there are tubas around that have the big bell, but retain the old-style back bow; I don't know if these are factory models or have retro-fitted bells.

In particular, the back bow on my instrument is continuously conical - unlike the earlier Imperial where I have read that the back bow was cylindrical for a few inches on either side, just before it enters the ferrules (apparently a vestige of the re-design from high-pitch to A440).