This is a *question*, and *not* a statement.

[eupher61]

2nd picture (new Blessing) didn't come through, bloke. Further question, though: What IS Blessing making themselves anymore?

[tubajoe]

(Edited...)

Off the top of my head...

The first one with the tighter wrap and longer leadpipe going around into the 1v is a copy of the poplular Yamaha baritone (despite it's original roots ). it has a large shank (euph/bass bone) receiver.

The second one with the shorter leadpipe going into the 3v is a copy of the Dynasty baritone. While a larger more open wrapped horn, this horn has a small shank (bone) receiver.

I think....

It's been a few seasons since I've had the time to teach "outdoor music" but it looks like those are just copies of the two most common corps horns from the early-mid 2000s.

The actual developers of these horns, versus likely Chinese facsimiles might have the parts or specs you need. These look like carbon copies. The trick would be finding exactly what generation/vintage of the Yamaha & Dynasty they copied as both Y&D tweaked them a bit from season to season.

[Lee Stofer]

I have not seen the instrument in question in person, and cannot answer your question, although I think I could guess the correct answer. I am also a fan of the older Blessing M300, possibly the best-playing Bb instrument of it's type ever made. The quality and feel of the German valves, and the playability and tonal qualities of one in good mechanical order has impressed me for years.

I have repaired and play-tested all the other major brands, and though none of them were really bad, they are what they are. And, in this era I think we will see even more of the, "the brand name says this, but who really made it?" situation.

When I was working for Kanstul at the 2010 Musik Messe in Frankfurt, Germany, I got an opportunity to go and check out the other booths. There were normal European booths, and very few US booths, and besides Adams of the Netherlands and Kanstul from California, I saw very little that was new in the tuba world. Some of the big names from 20 years ago were barely represented or not at all. I knew that there had been quite an increase in musical instrument manufacturing in Asia, but I was not prepared for the huge number of booths for companies from Taiwan, Mainland China, Viet Nam, India, etc., etc. But, as I looked at the wares in the booths, I noticed that there was very little variation in instrument styles between the vast majority of the booths, and most of them seemed to have exactly the same instruments as another, only with differing labels. I mostly looked at low brass, and the three dominant styles were what looked exactly like Yamaha, what looked exactly like Conn-Selmer (King, pretty much), and the Mirafone/Meinl copies. It is no secret that conn-Selmer and Yamaha have been outsourcing production to China, and probably elsewhere now, too.

In the mid' 1990's when I bought my beloved USA-made Cannondale mountain bike, having an American-made bicycle had already become a rarity, even in the US. Someone told me at that time that over 90% of the world's bicycles, regardless of brand name, were being made in one of two huge factories in China. I think this has been happening in the musical instrument manufacturing business, too.

This impression is reinforced by what an official at one US musical instrument company told me of a visit to China, to discuss possible cooperation between this company and several manufacturing companies there. The official was greeted and treated well by his hosts. On the first day, he was taken to a large factory, introduced to the managers, given a tour of the factory, and the hosts tried to get all the information they could out of the American about instrument manufacturing techniques in the US. On the second day, he was to visit another factory, which he thought seemed like they were at the same one he had visited yesterday. He was introduced to another set of managers, toured the facility, and was questioned about American manufacturing techniques. After he was taken to the same plant on the 3rd day, introduced to yet another set of managers and had a carbon-copy of days one and two, he said he had had enough and came home.

Looking at the photos of the Schiller and Blessing instruments, there is very little question to me as to where the new Blessing was made, or at least its parts. I would love to be proved wrong, but don't think I will be. By the way, the comment by one person about an instrument being a copy of a Yamaha made me laugh. Yamaha, the company built on copying western ideas, being copied? I guess it could happen, although I think the Blessing came first.

[tubajoe]

I do know that Yamaha didn't make anything original and I dont know the specific roots of that horn...(I believe you when it's the Blessing ) I was commenting on the *popular* version and speculating, because through through much the 2000s, Yamaha and Dynasty were the *only* horns winning DCI. And so, high schools bought them like hotcakes. ...and I am only speculating that's why the Chinese copies singled out those two horns.

Now King and Jupiter are in the game, but at one point, those two specific horns were the bomb.

I do know that in the early 2000s Yamaha did do some R&D/trials and tweaks to that set of horns, mostly the Mello and Tuba, but I am guessing the bari had some tweaks too...

Anyway, I just jumped in to suggest them as another place for parts, since they were so popular and there are probably a zillion of them still in play.

[tubajoe]

DCI switched to "multi-key" (ie Bb/F) in 2000.

[eupher61]

And, Yamaha is definitely being copied. The Jin Bao 3+1 comp euph is almost piece for piece a copy. The finish, on the other hand...well, not copied.

[jmerring]

This thread makes me gla that I don't own (and never will, again), any type of tuba. Meinl and Miraphone will evn go the Chinese route - eventually.

[bort]

This thread makes me gla that I don't own (and never will, again), any type of tuba. Meinl and Miraphone will evn go the Chinese route - eventually.

Meinl is already making their student line of instruments in China, and they have been forthright about it. Everything else is made in Germany. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if small common/shared parts are made in bulk in China or something like that. All speculation.

Miraphone makes everything in Germany. There was a letter posted here a few months back from Markus Theinart, and he made it clear how important that is to him and his company. I'll try and find the post, but it was encouraging to see him speak out about it, albeit in response to a question asked of him.

Yes, I complain about the whole China thing... but I complain more about companies who try to hide it.

[Lee Stofer]

All this makes me wonder why Western companies would send outsource work to China, and not expect the Chinese to make the goods and then compete with them. I see every evidence that Conn-Selmer and Yamaha did this, saving money in the short-term by outsourcing production to China, and now it has come back to bite them. It should not be a surprise to anyone.