She Who Must Be Obeyed

[FarahShazam]

Joe, I hear ya. I think lots of people misintrepret this verse (and the whole bible for that matter). The pastor that married Sean and I said that the man was the spiritual leader and I should submit to him. Sean and I looked at each other and said "ummmm, WE don't agree with that". Said pastor said until we discussed it, he would not marry us (we were married in a southern baptist church--we don't even go to church.).

Anyway, the next day, when we spoke with the pastor, he said "Did you discuss what we talked about?"

We said yes, and that was that. We "discussed" it only to make fun of it What a load of BS--the guy was fired from his position for doing drugs... (that church really sucked).

I think in all relationships, there is a more dominant voice. When I don't feel like dealing with things, I let Sean. He is great at it! (TG) But there are a couple of big things in our relationship that I handle (he is probably scratching his head wondering what those are!).

I'm grateful for my family. I never knew life could be such fun.

(and Doc, I wasn't trying to be mean to you, I was just trying to illustrate that when you don't care anymore in a relationship, it is time to rethink things)

on a side note: it does no good to quote biblical verses to me. I can only speak for myself, but many don't go back to the original language to discover what it truly says. However, some others may find it useful

[Chuck(G)]

Jon a side note: it does no good to quote biblical verses to me. I can only speak for myself, but many don't go back to the original language to discover what it truly says. However, some others may find it useful

Yeah, you're right:

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend of their wealth (for the support of women).
[Koran 4:34]

I'm pulling the collective leg here. Everyone (including neolithic writers) have an opinion on the subject.

You do what works.

[ThomasDodd]

Names removed to protect the innocent...

Man: Do you want to get <child>, now? (we just had beer and I want to relax at home)
Woman: No, I wasn't in any hurry to leave, (I want you to go with me to get <child> in 30minutes)

And here we see he root of the problem. The implication for the first statement was (likely) incorrect. More important, the implied message in the second statement should have been explicit. Had that one been explicit, most likely the trip would have occured 30-45 minutes later, and before traffic got bad.

That's been the point. Men, generally don't imply things, so don't read anything into it. At the same time don't expect use to figure out what you ment, just give it to us straight.

[Chuck(G)]

That's been the point. Men, generally don't imply things, so don't read anything into it. At the same time don't expect use to figure out what you meant, just give it to us straight.

We men rarely "give it straight". When there's something really bugging me, I do like most men and choke it down and soldier on. Nobody likes a crybaby, right?

When my wife goes silent, I know that something's bothering her and it may have absolutely nothing to do with me. But it may be impossible to tease it out of her. I doubt that she's different from most women.

All we can do is listen--really, really hard.

[MaryAnn]

This thread lightly touched on th fact the a man is always wrong. You brushed it off, but it's more true than not. Women as question and, no matter the response, we're wrong.

"How does this look?" You say "bad", and your mean, hatefull, inconsiderate..., you say "good", and you lying, mean hatefull, inconsiderate,...

"What do you want for dinner?" "What ever you want/I don't care" and you not usefull, inconsiderate, difficult... "I'd like <blah>" and you get no I don't want that, not tonight, blah, blah blah...


Thomas "damned if is does, damned if he doesn't"

You know, I have heard stories of relationships like this, but I personally have never been friends with a woman like this. Really!! I can't imagine marrying someone like this; actually I can't imagine getting beyond a few dates. I mean, Yikes! I guess this is the testosterone thing? A co-worker got married (after a fairly short romance) and his new wife promptly started expecting him to read her mind, even saying things like "If you loved me you would KNOW what I want." I mean, JEEZ, you know? Fortunately they went to counselling and got it straightened out and have a nice family life now.

MA, who thinks the stories just must be true, but finds it hard to fathom

[MaryAnn]

Joe Baker, whose marriage works.

Right on, Joe. It's the "us against the problem" that is most important.

Mary Ann, who resmbles the mental function of the "usual male" much more than the "usual female."

[MaryAnn]

Names removed to protect the innocent...

Man: Do you want to get <child>, now? (we just had beer and I want to relax at home)
Woman: No, I wasn't in any hurry to leave, (I want you to go with me to get <child> in 30minutes)

And here we see he root of the problem. The implication for the first statement was (likely) incorrect. More important, the implied message in the second statement should have been explicit. Had that one been explicit, most likely the trip would have occured 30-45 minutes later, and before traffic got bad.

That's been the point. Men, generally don't imply things, so don't read anything into it. At the same time don't expect use to figure out what you ment, just give it to us straight.

Tom, this time I agree with you. I'm having similar mild communication problems with my partner, making incorrect assumptions about when things will happen; I've realized that we need to agree out loud on when things will occur, so we both have a better idea of "the plan." Because my assumptions and his assumptions, about time in particular, are different and therefore need clarifying. BTW, this is the first guy I've been with where we had this particular problem, so I know that not "all" guys communicate and assume the same; you have to both work at filling in whatever gaps exist.
MA

[MaryAnn]

Someone encourage me... did anyone else feel this way? Am I really missing anything?

Fascinating topics, I love psychology!

Well, whether you are missing anything depends completely on what you want out of life.....are you accomplishment oriented? learning oriented? Do or do not get lonely?

I found that after passing 50 I don't have loneliness problems any more, and I have much less concern for what people think than I did when I was younger. I've always been more learning oriented than achievment oriented, plus the whole playing-with-toys drive that is common in engineers. I'd much rather find someone to play with toys with, than the whole romantic mushy thing, but the corollary to that is I don't really like feeling tied down either; and when the straight jacket starts to tighten I generally split.

Sooooo... I suspect you're doing the right thing for you!

MA, who has ended up being one of those middle-aged women with cats, pretty far from what she expected 30 years ago.

[ThomasDodd]

This all makes my head spin! I'm almost 30 and have no aspirations to have any sort of lasting, "tie myself down" relationships. ...
I may have a change of heart eventually, but for now I'm all for adopting an older child someday and pushing for my private practice (once I finish law school and pass the Bar) and some bit of a music career in teaching.

Many women feel that way at 25-30, then later regret not having started a family. Now, it seams MA is an exception, for now

Also, adoption is still rather difficult, especially for a single parent.

-Thomas

[Joe Baker]

I have no class this afternoon. (0:

Shux, Lisa, most of us have no class all the time.
______________________________________
Joe Baker, who hasn't had any class for well over 20 years!

[FarahShazam]

Names removed to protect the innocent...

Man: Do you want to get <child>, now? (we just had beer and I want to relax at home)
Woman: No, I wasn't in any hurry to leave, (I want you to go with me to get <child> in 30minutes)

And here we see he root of the problem. The implication for the first statement was (likely) incorrect.

I'd agree with you, however, because I know my marriage and my (wonderful) husband, I have to say you are wrong. There was much more spoken dialogue that what I actually typed out. I just typed out the most important (and humerous) information.

[MartyNeilan]

Many women feel that way at 25-30, then later regret not having started a family.

That is why, even with money tight and both of us fulltime students, my wife and I had our second child last summer. She was in her early 30's, her clock was ticking, and if we waited until we both graduated, got good jobs, stayed at them long enough to take leave, bought a house, paid off our student loans, etc etc. she would either be too old to have children or be in the high risk zone for a problem pregnancy.
When and if we have a third is another story.

[Joe Baker]

I remember when my brother was in police academy (the training, not the movie ) and he came over to tell my parents that his wife was in a family way. He fully expected my Dad to be critical of their timing, since they couldn't really afford to have a baby. My Dad's answer: "If everyone waited 'til they could afford it to have babies, the human race would have died out long ago. Congratulations, son!"

We couldn't afford our third one. But (thanks and glory to God) he'll turn 16 in a few weeks, having never lacked for anything. It's amazing how you can find a way when you have to!
____________________________________
Joe Baker, who "can't afford" to send his daughter to college, either, but is confident of finding a way.

[tubatooter1940]

After playing 20 years in bars,I found that most all my fellow musician's marriages resulted in divorce or the wife leveraging her player husband out of music.I remember the guys allowing the wife to fast dance only while we were playing-never a slow dance.None of these things worked.My wife never gave me cause to be worried and I never forbade her to to do any kind of dance.She was always my biggest fan and my most erudite critic.I also never gave her cause to worry and did my best to listen and address her concerns.We were lucky in that we agreed on the big issues and fought like hell over little details.We had kids and troubles but we never lost faith in each other.She'll probably wait until I'm
too old and too ugly to get any other woman and then file for divorce.
Until then,I'm feeling lucky but taking nothing for granted.
Dennis Gray