Low register help

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Listen carefully this time: Low playing does not, IN AND OF ITSELF, do anything for high range development.

Saying things louder does not make one right.

Nor does repeating a common misconception with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

My premise is that practicing say 50% high register and 50% low register will develop your high register faster than 75% high register and 25% low register will.

And that premise has absolutely nothing to back it up.

I simply believe that it develops your overall control and muscular development faster than high register playing.

Why do you believe this? Is there any evidence at all that this is true?

Study the weight lifter - sure they lift to their limits but the majority of the time is spent on less weight and more repetitions. This is where strength is developed.

Tuba playing is not weight training, nor is it really analagous. Even if it were directly analagous it doesn't speak to why low register playing would develop high range.

OK, stick me with a fork, I am done with this thread and this argument.

I really hate this. Convince me why you are correct with some facts. Don't take your ball and go home like a little girl. We're all here to learn something.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

My point is do not throw out a method because it was not needed in your development. Here are some of the reasons to use it, all of these were students I have taught.

The first is I had a student who had trouble hearing the pitches above second space c in the staff. We tried a number of things but he did not start making measurable progress on expanding his range up and increase his accuracy in hitting picthes until we started working on those same pitches and intervals in the lower octave.

The second is the student can play the notes in the upper range but the sound is weak and unfocused. After tring the normal fixes with no solid long lasting results. I had the student work on interval, long tone, and scales in the lower octave than would play the same exercise in the upper octave. The student starts to see how those pitches are linked by the harmonic series and uses the clear and solid sound of the lower octave is connected to the sound created in the upper register.

I have more issues I have seen in my students over the years and have used low range exercises to strength their upper range. What I have noticed is students end up having some type of disconnect in either hearing those pitches or creating the correct sound. When other teaching methods have not worked to fix those issues low range work has been that missing piece for the student that made the whole thing click.

My job is to use what ever method that gets my students to sound the best they can, not using a method does a disservice to my students and to them in their development as a musician.

With this method you do have to believe that all the pitches are built upon the fundamental pitch and all pitches that are higher can be heard and are based off of that fundamental pitch within the harmonic series.

I have no problem with the methods you describe here. If the problem is hearing the correct pitches then I think everyone would agree that playing them in a more accessible octave helps.

I just don't think they show that low playing is a magic elixir for developing high range which is such a commonly held misconception that some are vehemently arguing it here. It's a poor teacher that simply tells a student struggling with high register to "play low" but can't explain why that helps.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Don't take your ball and go home like a little girl. We're all here to learn something.

Seems some want to be right and do not want to learn. After teaching middle and high school kids for 35 years I know when to stop trying to make a point. I have had some fine teachers - students of Jacobs, Phillips, Bell, and Falcone tell me what I have been trying to explain here. Among them, they were in consensus on this concept. This is good enough for me. Have a good day.

I'd love to learn something today. Give me something that shows that playing in the low register develops the high range. Arnold Jacobs didn't say that, and neither did William Bell. Harvey Phillips and Leonard Falcone might have, but I'm not as knowledgeable about their pedagogical methods. I'd be interested to see a quote or a link to a book where they claimed such to be true.

All we have, as far as I'm concerned, is a bunch of people claiming that low playing aids high range development because a bunch of people say so. My counter-claim is that steady practice aids in the development of the high range due to the strengthening of the embouchure muscles and the range used doesn't matter much. My anecdotal evidence is that I never practiced in the low range much as an undergraduate and was able to develop a very strong high register from simply practicing 3-4 hours a day religiously.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

It is my guess that you're talking about two different kinds of students.
I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that you're talking about undergrad studies and that
tstryk is talking about much younger students.

I'm not talking about any particular kind of student. I'm saying that low playing is not a cure for high register issues, and it's been thrown around as "good advice" for far too long. How many students are told to practice low, don't make fast progress in their high registers, get frustrated, and quit?

BUT EVEN IF I'M WRONG, let's give up and defer to Mr. Baadsvik. He plays high better then any of us.

When has Øystein Baadsvik ever told anyone that playing low helps their high range? Also, I play high as well as he does. Maybe better. I'm crazy good in that regard, but I learned long ago that no one is going to pay me to play higher, faster, and louder. It's a nice parlor trick and handy for community band solo features, but that's about it.

Todd, I want this thread to go away.
It is my guess that you're talking about two different kinds of students.
I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that you're talking about undergrad studies and that
tstryk is talking about much younger students.
BUT EVEN IF I'M WRONG, let's give up and defer to Mr. Baadsvik. He plays high better then any of us.

What's up with quoting your own posts right after you post them? That's just strange.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

BUT EVEN IF I'M WRONG, let's give up and defer to Mr. Baadsvik. He plays high better then any of us.

When has Øystein Baadsvik ever told anyone that playing low helps their high range?

Speaking to that, here's a tidbit from Mr. Baadsvik's "FAQ" page. It doesn't look like he recommends "playing low" to me.

High register

My name is Andrew and I’m a 16-year-old, Australian, Tuba enthusiast (and a bit fan of yours!). I’ve been playing my BBb Tuba for about 2 years now and my tone in the middle and lower registers is alright, however I’m having trouble developing a nice tone in the upper register (things start to go wrong at about G top space in the staff). I was wondering if you had any tips for achieving this notes in the higher register. I’ve also been told that there’s a certain amount of “natural ability” involved with these notes, which as you can imagine, could be quite disillusioning. What is your opinion on this? Is hard work just as good?

Hi Andrew,
In a way it has to do with natural ability. But the kind of ability we are talking about is more the ability to find solutions, or having luck stumbling over them.In other words, you can do it.
Hard work is good, but needs to be combined with being lazy. By this I mean trying to find energy efficient solutions. The first person ever to play on a guitar probably used the tuning screws to alter the pitch. Tensioning the string. Hard work, and slow. Then someone figured out that you could just leave the tuning screw and simply shorten the string by pressing your finger on it, over the fret board. Far quicker, easier and much less stress on the string. This is what most people do wrong when playing in the high register on a tuba. Pulling the lips out, stretching them rather than simply making the vibration area shorter. A common mistake is to use too much air in the high register. Think small.
Try it!