Stupid Newbie question re: Rudolf-Meinl 6/4

[bisontuba]

Here you go ..mark

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=48166&hilit=Rudolf+Meinl" target="_blank

[MikeMason]

Wish you the best of luck in your search. BIG mistake.

[svivian]

Buy the next one that comes up for sale; you'll be the only person bidding on it.

There's one for sale on the board right now...

In other news -
What kind of french horn did you own? Why'd you choose that horn over others?

My last horn before I had to stop playing was a Lawson AmBronze largebore. I chose it for three reasons: One, it was unusual; not many players use them. Two, it had a really rich, dark sound, which I enjoyed (I used their "champagne nickel" bell on an AmBronze body). To use a visual metaphor, while the sound of the Holton was like Karo syrup, the Lawson was like Dark Lord Imperial Stout. Three, I was overpowering my Holton Farkas largebore, and several other horn players recommended the Lawson as being better-suited to my playing. Also, having experienced a few other horns with different "wraps", I preferred the Holton and the Lawson (Kruspe wrap) as being less stuffy-feeling.

Thank you to the rest of you for the more insightful views on the RM horn. I do understand the issues with the size; a player on one of the other RM threads mentioned that it was like holding a filing cabinet at first. As to the types of playing I expect: I plan to play to some extent just for myself. In that situation, I don't need to worry about overpowering anyone else (except maybe the neighbors), so blending isn't an issue there. In that situation, just overcoming the challenge of mastering the instrument is the main goal. To paraphrase JFK, I choose not to play the RM because it is easy but because it is hard. As far as ensemble playing, that'll come later if I feel I've come far enough, and also feel energetic enough to start going to regular rehearsals. There are a couple of symphony orchestras here in India, though they are apparently not very active. There are also a few efforts going on to revive western classical music in India, which declined severely after the British left. To the extent that there are still western players here, many are influenced by British wind band music, and the dynamic range of all music in India (apart from some Indian classical music) starts at mf and goes up past deafening, so the RM will quite possibly fit right in. Tubas are rare here based on what I've seen, so it is entirely possible that I would be the only one, so being able to carry the section against what is sure to be a whole platoon of trumpets might be a benefit. I won't likely be playing in any Haydn orchestras or small chamber groups where anything larger than a 4/4 would be overkill.

And to Neptune, thank you. If I do go forward and don't manage to grab the one thats for sale here, I will definitely consider Wessex to make the purchase through (not the least reason for which is that an ancestor of mine was the last non-Norman Earl of Wessex, so some serendipity there).

[Bandmaster]

I beleive this is the horn you are all talking about:

[TBow]

I didn't see much discussion about moving the horn from the house to the car, from the car to rehearsal, then back home. Not to mention performances which invariably are FAR more challenging to get the horn in and out! All without banging the horn if its in a gig bag. If its inside a hard case it will come close to doubling the weight!
This is the first Christmas season in ~8-10 years that I haven't been to the Chiropractor (back issues) because my work schedule kept my from attending rehearsals and I only did one Tuba Christmas. Every time my wife watches me schlep the horn around she shakes her head and says something like "you couldn't play the piccolo."
I'm not a little fellow either but I also ain't gitten any younger! BATs are cool! I use to have a BIG old sousaphone that stood over 5' tall and weighed ~50 pounds. Three or 4 Tuba Christmas shows and I suffered for a month and the "coolness" wore off real quick.
You might consider hauling around a small refrigerator to get some idea of how well you'll do moving a BAT as your primary horn. Just the opinion of a phat old Phart.

[Lew]

I seem to remember playing a RM 6/4 BBb at the USABTEC a number of years ago at Lee Stofer's "booth." I think it found its way home with Mike Lynch. In any case, in spite of its size, it was a very flexible horn to play. I found it as easy to play softly as loud. Even when playing softly though it has such presence that it can feel louder. I am about 6' 5" and I found the playing position to be a little awkward. I just couldn't get comfortable holding it. If I were looking for a horn to use as the primary or only tuba with a large ensemble then it would definitely be something I would have considered (if I had the money, which I did at the time).

If you are looking for an all around tuba then I would look elsewhere.

[J.c. Sherman]

I believe this is the horn you are all talking about:

HOLY $#!+ that's a huge horn... only instrument I've ever seen that dwarfs my old 164!

J.c.S.

[eupher61]

Right now, I will offer you $1000 for the RM6/4 when you find, after trying it for a month, you realize it was a stupid purchase.

better question...when you started on horn, what was your first horn?

[Rick Denney]

I have played the Rudi 6/4. It is not a general purpose instrument, but rather a special-effect instrument. It dwarfs my 6/4 Holton 345, which is itself a big instrument. Neither is useful for chamber music, or small orchestras.

The question of whether a hornist would struggle with the Rudi is secondary to the fact that most tuba players, even good ones, would struggle with the Rudi.

Start with a nice Meinl-Weston Thor (5450). That may be one of the best general purpose tubas on the market, and it will accommodate your apparent desire to spend lots of money.

Rick "surprised not that the 6/4 Rudi can be played well, but that it can be played at all" Denney

[Rick Denney]

I should add that one wonders why you asked, given that you seem to have already made up your mind. Frankly, this sounds like a case of gear-acquisition syndrome mixed with a little machismo bravado. I wish you luck.

Rick "hey, it's your money--but don't try to persuade those with experience that it's a good idea" Denney

[Dan Schultz]

To each his own. I jokingly remarked once that I would trade my freshly-rebuilt Conn 48K and its travel case for a Rudy 6/4. Why? Probably for the same reason that I own more tubas and sousas NOW than most folks will own over their lifespan.... Just because I can. I would love to have the experience of playing a 6/4 Rudy but not just for a few minutes in someones studio.

Yeah.... I'd like to have one, too!

[glangfur]

While you're at it you might as well buy an airplane. And not a little 2-seater but a 747. You can learn to fly in the cockpit of a jumbo jet, right?

Why do you ask a question if you don't really want to hear the answer?

If you want a big tuba for a big sound, why not buy a big Cerveny? Cerveny has been making tubas for a long, long time, and they know what they're doing. They're reasonably priced and sound great, and unlike a 6/4 Rudy you can resell it if you find you want something smaller - or if you find the big tuba really floats your boat and decide to go for the Rudy after having learned how to play.

[Radar]

I'm new to tuba playing myself (although I do play Euphonium, and Trombone) It seems to me that money isn't a problem for you, but if that is the case why buy such a large and expensive instrument right from the start. If you start on a smaller less expensive (even a good student model horn) that will accomplish many things:
1) You'll get an idea if Tuba is going to be for you, and playing this horn will help you prepare to move up to a bigger better horn.
2) If you decide you don't enjoy playing the Tuba, you'll have a horn that is easier to find a buyer for.
3) If you do decide you like Tuba when you do get a larger more expensive instrument later on you'll have a back up instrument to practice on when your primary horn goes in the shop or you want to go somewhere to play where you don't want to take a $20k instrument with you.

[swillafew]

That's the best post of the year.

[Jess Haney]

Welcome.

Can it be played delicately, or is it no more than a cannon?

So here is the real question, can YOU play it delicately? The 6/4 is not a horn for mere mortals, and not something I would recommend to someone beginning to play the tuba, regardless of musical history. I have never played the Rudy, but I understand it is bigger than even my Alex 164. I drive my Alex in very select ensembles, where I know they can take the breadth of sound that comes from it. At these ludicrous sizes, volume is often not the issue, but overwhelming presence.

If you are serious about throwing down more than $20,000 on a Rudy 6/4, seek out one here in the states, or contact the company directly to schedule a visit to try one yourself.

Best of luck!

Well played sir. I have seen eyes of joy and eyes of holy crap from other ensemble members over the depth of sound my Willson will have when the director asks for more foundation. Wind ensemble directors usually want something smaller as to not disturb the flamible instruments feelings and some directors welcome the sheer width of sonic bass. But ultimatly it must match the sound you envision in your mind. 2 cents

[TubaRay]

My take on this thread is similar to several others. I wonder why you posted here, in the first place. You seem to be oblivious to all advice. You had seemingly already made up your mind. What did you want from us? Validation? Here you go: Buy any instrument you want to be, so long as you have the cash. As long as I'm not involved in providing that cash, I'm quite happy to see you spend YOUR money any way you see fit. If it turns out the horn is exactly what you wanted--wonderful! If not: Oh, well!

Happy New Year!

[Rick Denney]

My take on this thread is similar to several others. I wonder why you posted here, in the first place...

Rick "fixing the link" Denney

[TubaRay]

My take on this thread is similar to several others. I wonder why you posted here, in the first place...

Rick "fixing the link" Denney

Maybe so....

[The Big Ben]

Even though I have never played a horn bigger than a 20J, starting with the Big Rudy would seem to be a lot like buying a Kenworth highway tractor to use as an everyday driver. It could be done but, unless pulling a 20,000 pound trailer of pig iron is something that you must do every day, some sort of 1/2 ton pickup or sedan would be more appropriate.

[MaryAnn]

Troll or no troll, if you had dystonia on horn (as I do and did) you will develop it on other brass instruments too. Maybe not as badly, but it will be there. You'll be able to hack well enough to be welcome in most amateur groups because of your musical skills level, but the chops are the chops.

And:
" Wind ensemble directors usually want something smaller as to not disturb the flamible instruments feelings "

Whoever said that, it is one of the funniest things I've ever seen here; I have a new name for those wooden scritchy-sounding things. One of the things I liked immensely about becoming a hornist was the new-found ability to completely drown out, single-handedly, a community orchestra violin section.

MA