Mouthpiece for 1291

[Tubaman2365]

I bought my Miraphone 1291 about 8 months ago and I have enjoyed playing it a lot. But I am having trouble finding a mouthpiece that works well with it for everything I want to do. So I am asking what those of you that have experience playing a 1291 have used with success. I know that each player is different so I will not necessarily have the same success with a mouthpiece, but I figure it will be a good starting point. I should say that I have changed the lead pipe to a 1292 lead pipe. It seems to have helped the midrange accuracy some.

Here are some of the mouthpieces I have tried to varying degrees of success.

Loud LM4. I LOVE the low register with this mouthpiece but anything in the middle of the staff and higher sounds unfocused and lacks body. Articulation is a bit muddy
This mouthpiece works best in my opinion for the concert band in which I play.

Bloke piece Symphony. Mid and upper range sound more focused but the low register is a little bright and barky for my tastes. Articulation is clearer and cleaner.

Dillon Olka. Way too bright to me.

Thanks for any help you guys can give.

[Dan Schultz]

Like you said... everyone's chops are different. I prefer mouthpieces that are on the large side. I'm currently using a MF3B.

[bort]

I used a Baer MMVI the entire time I had my 1291, and thought it worked great. I think that mouthpiece was designed for the 1291, too, if I remember correctly.

[Sam Gnagey]

I'm having the best results with a PT88. It seems a bit large for my chops. I'll be checking out the PT84, Laskey 30G and 30B when they arrive. I think a bowl shaped cup is better than a funnel for the horn.

[bort]

How about a Mike Finn 'H'?

[stockhausen]

I use a blokepiece symphony on my 1292. I think it works great. I used to use a GW baer mp and that worked great as well. I just happened to like the blokepiece more. My college professor (JaTtik Clark, Oregon Symphony) uses a blokepiece on his 1292 as well. He also used a GW Baer MP prior to the blokepiece. Overall though...you gotta find the piece that works with you. Its gotta be your buddy.

[Roger Lewis]

If the Bloke Symphony is too bright (I use one to take the brightness out of one of my horns) it sounds like you are a very bright sound person. I would suggest the PT88 or the Warburton V8 for a darker sound. These work for me but they are quite large and will probably limit your upper range a bit.

Just my $0.02.
Roger

[rperrym]

I am using a Mike Finn 3H for my 1291 BBb tuba.
Rick

[Ed Jones]

This may seem pretty radical, but the moutpiece Mirafone sends out with the 1291 (TU 31) works very well with that horn.

[Tubaman2365]

This may seem pretty radical, but the moutpiece Mirafone sends out with the 1291 (TU 31) works very well with that horn.

I bought mine used and I was not aware that was the mouthpiece included with new 1291's. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Alan Baer]

Happy New Years to everyone!
The only thing I will say to this is that the mouthpiece choice is a very personal choice. Please remember that the 1291 requires a EURO shank piece! This is a measurement of .538 at the end of the shank! So, if your piece is not that, it will work but not as good as it should. Would you put a tractor tire on a Toyota? Of course not! Will it work? Yes I suppose you can make anything work! But why would you attempt to force this situation? Just remember.... For every .001 that you are off of that previous number.... The mouthpiece moves in or out of the horn .018! That is huge! So, if you put a PT88 in the horn, it will go into the horn and extra .180. So couple that with a huge mouthpiece to begin with... What kind of clarity do you think you will get? What about an American shank? Say a Miraphone TU 23? Here is a case where a player would believe a Miraphone mouthpiece should fit a Miraphone horn... Wrong again! That piece has an American shank of .520! So, do the math. 18x.018=.324. Take a look at how much that is and you will ask yourself why in hell have I been doing this?
Yes, mouthpieces are a very personal choice... But, the proper shank is something that is a design aspect of horn... Please keep in mind that some horns, no matter what you put into the horn will not be right. In this case the receiver should be altered to guarantee the proper gap.. Gap for a C tuba should be .350. An F tuba. .125.
Some may be intent on flaming this info, have at it... But it plain and simply works.. Wishing everyone a great New Year with tons of progress in your future!
Al Baer

[Lectron]

Disagreeing with the great mr. Baer is probably not the greatest moment in ones life
if one wants to be taken serious in those same aspects, but still

I believe that there should be a smooth transition from the mouthpiece into the leadpipe.
No thick sharp walls at the end of the shank that'll make 'eddies' and a minimum of gap.

Why would one rely on disturbance in air-flow to 'brighten up' the sound?

[Sam Gnagey]

Alan's analysis is spot on. I discovered by trial and error the same concept in putting together instruments myself. The gap has to be right to make the instrument respond properly. Any horn can be modified to play brighter or darker (muddy IMO) by changing the gap. The mouthpiece that I received with the horn (admittedly a clone of the 1291) that I have does not fit nor work for me. Miraphone should take note if this is also the case as Alan says.

[opus37]

I heard Alan Baer talk about gap about a year ago. I was having some trouble with clarity of sound before I paid attention to gap. Well, the short of it is he's right on. I followed his gap suggestions on my Kanstul Eb and found the sound was much better. Once more, changing mouth piece cup dimension now were clearer. I suggest you listen to the gap recommendations.

[Lectron]

Alan's analysis is spot on. I discovered by trial and error the same concept in putting together instruments myself. The gap has to be right to make the instrument respond properly. Any horn can be modified to play brighter or darker (muddy IMO) by changing the gap. The mouthpiece that I received with the horn (admittedly a clone of the 1291) that I have does not fit nor work for me. Miraphone should take note if this is also the case as Alan says.

So what you are saying is ...

You do not have a Miraphone 1291 nor Miraphone mouthpiece but confirms that these are for you a mis-match

OK.

I do not say that gap does not matter, I do however say that the gap (or lack of) matter to the sound.
So do also the wall thickness of the end-of-shank, round of etc.

Saying that there is a specific recommended gap is saying science does not exist, nor do personal preference

Remember...Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

And for what it's worth.

This is a discussion that started long time ago between Schilke and Bach
It will not stop with you, me or Baer

[Sam Gnagey]

OK. I see where this is going: opinions versus many observations and measurements. No further comment from me on this topic.

[Lectron]

OK. I see where this is going: opinions versus many observations and measurements. No further comment from me on this topic.

I am sorry to break this to you, but neither you or Alan Baer are the only 'researchers' on this matter

[Alan Baer]

As a clarification on this subject,
I certainly don't pretend to be the last word on ANYTHING when it comes to tuba.
And, the point was NOT made or given to make the horn "brighter". That had Nothing to do with what I said. I referred to gap to give the best clarity, and articulation. If you prefer to play with no gap. That is your choice. The gap only offers resistance. Resistance is control. If there is no resistance offered through the horn, where do you think the resistance will be created? In the body.
No other choice. So if this is ok with you, and it does not create problems for you, have a wonderful career! What I posted is a place to start. I frequently will move people off of this numbers as needed. Skill level, physical strength, horn size. But, that is where I start. This is a forum to share ideals and info and If people are hit from the side each time info is put out there, the chain of info soon stops. In good faith, I offered what I do and what was intended for the 1291 tuba, a horn that I helped design.
I believe I've researched this more that most and certainly realize that many others have their own opinions and research... So, if this does not fit your agenda, lets not start a war here.
I hope this clears this matter as this will be MY last post on this.
Al Baer

[Jess Haney]

I used a Baer MMVI the entire time I had my 1291, and thought it worked great. I think that mouthpiece was designed for the 1291, too, if I remember correctly.

The Giddings Webster Baer MMVI was designed by Alan Baer for the 1291/1292, this was the setup he used for the NYPO for a while.

http://www.gwmouthpieces.com/news.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

A friend of mine also has the G/W Baer piece on his 1291 and he loves that piece.

[Lew]

As a clarification on this subject,
I certainly don't pretend to be the last word on ANYTHING when it comes to tuba.
...
I hope this clears this matter as this will be MY last post on this.
Al Baer

Even so, you are certainly more of an expert on this than anybody else I am likely to hear from. While this may be your last post on this subject, I am looking forward to reading your comments in the future on any subject having to do with tubas, playing tuba, or music in general... thanks for participating here.