Origins of the Contra?

[Dan Schultz]

Here's a good use for the DEG M875... http://thevillagetinker.com/deg_m875_ma ... ersion.htm

[UDELBR]

Old bugles in drum corps only had 1 to 2 valves and were pitched in G because any other instrument was against regulations.

But according to this thread, the older instruments were 'invented' in the '50s or '60s. Why such a cockamamie 'regulation'? What was the point?

[imperialbari]

Scout based drum corps movement wanted seclusion from the school and community based marching bands:

http://www.unitedalumni.com/History/his ... _corps.htm

[Bandmaster]

Almost no one makes GG contras anymore. I know Kanstul still does, but they have 3 valves. What are mostly (incorrectly) referred to as contras today DO have 3 valves and are in BBb.

Old bugles in drum corps only had 1 to 2 valves and were pitched in G because any other instrument was against regulations. But a rule change (early 90's??) allowed for any key (and 3-valve) brass instrument to be played.

The first bugles (1920's) had no valves, then they added one, then they added a rotor to go with the valve, then two valves in the 1970's. In the late 1980's the rule change allowing 3 valves in G so arrangers could write in more keys with no missing notes. Several years later they allowed instruments pitched in Bb with the express exception of the trombone. All instruments must be of bell front design. The BBb version of the contra is called a "tuba" in today's drum corps.

Kanstul still can make just about anything you want. These 2 valve GG contras were custom ordered my the U.S. Marine Corps Drum & Bugle Corps in 2006. They have a custom rotory valve to extend the tuning slide to allow tuning adjustments for the missing 3 valve. In the old days they used to have really long tuning slides that they would do a long pull on so they could hit certain notes when needed.

[MikeS]

I'm curious: since these are relatively modern instruments, what's the reason for the bizarre valve setup? Why not at least 3 valves to allow chromaticism?

My understanding is that the standard U.S. Army field bugle was pitched in G. The corps got started when the Army moved away from using bugles as signalling devices and a large number of them became available as surplus. After a while corps started to equip some of their bugles with D slides. This would give the group access to the notes of a diatonic scale. Add in someone with an F# slide or valve and you have a fair number of chromatic possibilities. You would still have to score for the group like it was a wind-driven hand bell choir. I suspect the introduction of multiple valves was a way to creep slowly toward a group where individual instruments could play chromatically.

[GC]

Before DCI the big competitions were sponsored by the American Legion, who also held band competitions. My first corps contest was the American Legion finals held at Georgia Tech in 1969. They kept the rules in place to keep the instruments separate from the band competitions. The horns had a piston and a rotary valve, but also had a pullable slide to help add notes and theoretically fix intonation. Some of the wonky notes in the old arrangements were because of unadjusted notes or notes missing from the horn's range, and most of the charts back then were learned by rote rather than by reading. Many of the players were untrained in other instruments.

DCI was founded partly because the old Legion rules were too restrictive, and many of the directors wanted improved instruments. The change to fully chromatic instruments was pretty much inevitable because of evolving musical tastes.

[OldsRecording]

The Marine Drum and Bugle Corps still uses two valve G horns because if they used 3 valved Bb horns they would be considered a band.

[TubaRay]

Personally having tried playing sousaphone and contra, I would prefer the former any day for both ergonomics and sound - just my opinion

I totally agree!

[TubaRay]

The contra was developed to meet the requests for the drum and bugle cores which have become very popular over here.

Are you attempting to refer to the "core" of a particular drum and bugle "corps?" Just wondering....

[TubaRay]

Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Am I the only one who wonders how you know that a fiberglass contra looks really cool, if you've never seen one before?

[SousaWarrior9]

Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Am I the only one who wonders how you know that a fiberglass contra looks really cool, if you've never seen one before?

A joke, I know, but in all seriousness, I had never seen one BEFORE seeing the pictures Neptune put up from Wessex's trip to the midwest clinic.

[imperialbari]

I hadn't seen one before either. Not that these ergonomic disasters have my interest per se. If howeve there is some saving of weight without compromising structural stability and if sound/playability stays good, then I see potential in making student instruments with such bells and bottom bows.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

I hadn't seen one before either. Not that these ergonomic disasters have my interest per se. If howeve there is some saving of weight without compromising structural stability and if sound/playability stays good, then I see potential in making student instruments with such bells and bottom bows.

Klaus

[TubaRay]

Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Am I the only one who wonders how you know that a fiberglass contra looks really cool, if you've never seen one before?

A joke, I know, but in all seriousness, I had never seen one BEFORE seeing the pictures Neptune put up from Wessex's trip to the midwest clinic.

Of course, i was joking, however, I was responding to exactly what you posted. Since I am perfect, I believe that gives me the right to be hypercritical. Like I said, I am prefect.

[Kevin Hendrick]

Btw, the fiberglass contra looks really cool, I've never seen one before! Could you put a demo of it on YouTube? I'd like to hear how it sounds.

Am I the only one who wonders how you know that a fiberglass contra looks really cool, if you've never seen one before?

A joke, I know, but in all seriousness, I had never seen one BEFORE seeing the pictures Neptune put up from Wessex's trip to the midwest clinic.

Of course, i was joking, however, I was responding to exactly what you posted. Since I am perfect, I believe that gives me the right to be hypercritical. Like I said, I am prefect.

Ford! I was wondering where you'd got off to -- where's Zaphod?

[Jess Haney]

Having played both extensively in marching bands and my days in junior corps, I feel it really depends on the visual and sound concept of the marching ensemble. Sousies have a round and warm sound great for college and high school marching bands that may not require any fast movement i.e. running. Contras or marching tubas have much clearer articulation and focused sound, especialy for the punch entrances of drum corps, and when you are on the go you can have them at carry and run down the field. Both have great uses and applications. Though marching tubas have settled more with 3 valves lately and some sousies have 4 now. The "Gs" as they are refered to sound different and when they are unified with all voices can be impressive from a sheer power standpoint if you were comparing the same number of Bb style horns against the Gs. The overall sound is much darker and projects farther but DCI chose to go to Bb in 2002-03 because judges felt more comfortable hearing tonality and tuning in Bb since most were band directors in their day (politics ). I feel IMOA the Gs were more suited to "corps" style and DCI will eventually become just like B.O.A. with woodwinds and such, if several of the corps directors get their way. Shame

[Jess Haney]

I've run with a Jumbo...

and to that my hat is off to you sir

[Jess Haney]

a fun pic for everyone with several "contra" generations