Part Number for 3rd valve crook on 14K?

[cheburashka]

I'd like to eliminate the ugly leaky patches on the 1st and 3rd crooks of my Stowasser Helicon and would like to replace the crooks entirely. My research shows that a 14K is only .03" smaller in bore through the valves, so I'd like to get a couple of 3rd valve crooks from a 14K and bring them up to size with a dent ball. Problem is, my tech is having problems with the online Conn-Selmer page. There's a diagram which shows the parts, but the parts numbers in the catalog don't match up at all. The image for a third valve crook (#52 in the image) lines up with a bottom valve cap on the parts page.

I'm hoping someone might be able to save me from ordering the wrong part repeatedly. Anyone know the part number for a 14K #10 bore 3rd valve crook? Looks like it might be an SU01086.

Thanks

[cheburashka]

Hmmm. Conn Loyalist shows the 14K 22K and 36K as having a #10 bore which is .718 and the 20K as having a #10 1/2 which is a .734. Is that right, or is there an error on Conn Loyalist's tuba page?

Conn-Selmer shows that there are several hundred of SU01086 which is from the 14K, and also of SU30014 which appears to be the wide upper crook from the third valve or the top of the first valve branch. If those are indeed the right numbers, I should be in business. However, the images do seem to correspond only partly with the parts lists.

[cheburashka]

Thanks for the response.

So are there any Conn tubas that use the #10 bore? Preferably something in recent production that might still have parts available?

If not, does anyone know of a source for crooks that are close to .718? I know Kanstul has a couple that are .710 through the fourth valve branch, and Jupiter, Miraphone and Meinl-Wesson have models that are .708 or .709.

Barring a true #10 bore Conn, these looks like my best option but I'll have to check with my tech on parts availability.

[Dan Schultz]

The two most common sousas out there are the 14K and 36K. The 36K has a fiberglass body but utilizes the same valve section. As 'Kiltie' pointed out... neither are in production any more but parts are plentiful. Allied has parts but you need to look only at the pre-1985 version. That upper 3rd slide crook is part C-06494-9 and the lower 3rd slide crook is C-06494-4. Your local repairman should be able to order them for you.

I think the correct bore for the 14/36K sousaphone is .737". The crooks I have here actually measure about .748".

I have a few used (and new) crooks if you want to send me an email. In order to make sure you are getting the right crook... I'll need a PRECISION dimension between the legs of your existing crooks.

[cheburashka]

I understand the importance of the overall crook width. I'd be really happy to get something that matches the original dimensions. However, since this helicon has been altered quite a bit in the past (I believe it started life as an "F" horn, but the valve slides have been extended and it has a pigtail-style tuning slide) I don't see the harm in a bit more judicious alteration. I figured that between me and Cerrobend, I'd be able to adjust the widths of the individual legs to match the crooks, or adjust the crooks to fit the legs.

Sounds like the 14K crooks aren't going to work at all, since they're a full .030 bigger than the originals. Tuba Tinker--I'll email you with accurate measurements when I get a chance to measure the existing crooks.

[cheburashka]

I've tried forming crooks with cerrobend. Due to the thickness of the slug of cerrobend, it's very hard to bend the tube. Also, on a bend as tight as a crook, it's almost impossible to get the wrinkles out of the inner radius. It's great for changing the width of a crook without ovalizing the tubing or for forming longer bends.

I've got two crooks that I attempted for his project, and both have a bad case of inner curve cellulite.

[Dan Schultz]

..... Sounds like the 14K crooks aren't going to work at all, since they're a full .030 bigger than the originals. Tuba Tinker--I'll email you with accurate measurements when I get a chance to measure the existing crooks.

Please do that. I may have something that will work for you. If you have the horn apart and are going to change a crook at EACH end... you may well be able to use something larger or smaller. King crooks are too small but I have some parts horns available.

BTW.... the only way I've found to alter the span of a crook is to cut it in half and add a ferrule. It's impossible to re-bend them.