sort-of a troll...sort-of-not a troll...

[Ben]

just my opinion - ditch the tone ring.

its a 6/4, you like the sound, so a broad ole jolly sound fits. If you want focused, you have a thor. No tone ring seems like a better diversity set.

2c

[greatk82]

Stick to the Thor and send me this one. I'll let you know what I decide.

[Art Hovey]

Maybe the fact that you have now spent a lot of time with this tuba but had not when you first tried the ring can account for the difference.

If I understand you correctly, this ring can be just jammed into the bell without soldering, and can be removed easily. If so, why not play the horn in a variety of situations with and without the ring before deciding whether to make it permanent?

Have you also tried installing nalgene tubing around the bell rim? I like the way that dampens out bell vibrations on one of my tubas, but it makes no perceptible difference on the others.

[Rick Denney]

Neither. It just so happens that this particular change worked positively with the characteristics of this particular tuba. I don't think it's because the tuba started out "good", or because it's particularly suited to the other changes you made. Meaning: If you made those sorts of change to a different type of tuba (or maybe even to a different tuba of the same type), I'm not sure the tone ring would make the same difference. Nor do I think the quality of that different instrument would make the difference.

Much time-wasting has resulted from attempting to overstate the effects of any given cause. The system is too complex to make that easy to do, especially from the comfort of an armchair.

Rick "in a hotel armchair tonight" Denney

[WilliamVance]

I would leave the tone ring out... But if you wanted to have that more focused sound then perhaps leaving it in for solo or quintet gigs you could leave it in. Just my 2 cents. I think hearing it in person would solidify my opinion. You tube?

[cjk]

Do you really want to make that tuba heavier?

Just go wrap a belt around the bell.

[Jay Bertolet]

I'm not exactly sure how you would accurately measure this but my understanding of how this works is that the tone ring should provide extra projection (read carrying power of the sound out into the audience) if working properly. That's the point of deadening the bell. All that formerly lost "signal strength" would then be channeled into the projected sound. The reason for using the ring would not necessarily be to change what the horn sounds like, though there would be a noticeable difference especially up close to the horn. I went through this process with my old Cerveny 601 CC and the discovery was that I got an "uglier" sound up close in trade for the extra projection (and that part of it was remarkable).

It actually is something I've noticed about some of the best orchestral players as far as being able to project their sound through the orchestra no matter what. Such players have a lot of power, generally sound very different in the context of the orchestra versus solo, and especially sound very harsh when listened to up close. One former teacher was hard to listen to if I was within 10 feet when he played. But put him in the orchestra playing, and then go out into the hall and the effect was totally different. I always imagined the cause of this to be that a sound that projects really well isn't necessarily a very pretty sound to listen to, much like a truck might be a very functional vehicle for some folks but not the most pleasurable thing to drive.

One way you might test the theory is to download one of those iPhone apps that approximates an oscilloscope and see if there is a measurable difference in the fundamental frequency in the sound. I've always been taught that this part of the sound provides the most projection. Maybe someone else has another idea on how to scientifically measure projection.

[EdFirth]

I did this to a 2155 with the same results. And everyone who I let play it looked in and tried to pull it out assuming that I had absentmindedly left some foreign object in my horn. Tha guy I eventually sold it to took it out.Ed

[Matt Good]

Joe,

My old 2165 that I bought in 1993 had a tone ring. In 1996, after having extensive damage repair done to the tuba at Dillon Music, I chose to have the tone-ring removed as I found that there was really a nickel's worth of difference with the tone ring in the bell (We actually did experiment with a decibel meter and there was little difference). For me, it was more of a choice of ergonomics as the tuba was more easy for me to manage minus the 3 pounds of weight the tone-ring added to the bell.

-Matt

[sloan]

Is Mrs. Bloke listening from the other end of your living room...or the back of a concert hall?

<what Jay said>

[MartyNeilan]

My thoughts, FWIW:

I have spent a lot of time tinkering with my BART project and will continue to do so for some time to come. 6/4 tubas are dangerously close to the threshold of "not sounding good" to the average non-tuba-playing listener. What I mean by that is having a sound devoid of color, overtones, harmonics, call it what you want. The "foghorn" sound. I think that with all you have done to tighten up the front end of the tuba, you are now able to effectively use the tone ring, and still remain within that "good sounding" range of timbre. Before, being right on the cusp of losing what little color remained in the sound, the tone ring negatively pushed you over the edge. Now, you are far enough back from the cliff that you have some room to play with.

Marty "who ain't no Bloke when it comes to tuba torching"

[T. J. Ricer]

As I'm sure you've already concluded:

If there is no *negative* affect on the sound out front and you prefer the sound/feedback of the instrument from the mouthpiece end with the tone ring in... leave it in.

and as you probably already know/have tried:

You could put aquarium tubing around the rim and probably get a feel that is half-way between tone ring and no tone ring.


All that aside, "big Alex-like sound" with pistons and no slide pulling? Sign me up!

--T. J.

[windshieldbug]

I suspect that it only makes a difference within a limited distance.

Despite that fact, if you or your fellow musicians like it better that way, put it in.
You'd pay any money for a better feeling about your sound.

(Yes, it reminds me A LOT of when I stripped the lacquer off the bell of my 5/4 CC... )

[k001k47]

You could put aquarium tubing around the rim and probably get a feel that is half-way between tone ring and no tone ring.

I have seen tubas with the aquarium tubing around the rim. I always ASSumed that it was there to keep the bell from getting marred when setting it down. It never dawned on me it would have an affect on the sound, but that makes perfect sense. ::light bulb goes on::

For some reason, I read "put an auquarium around the rim".