the long b-natural in tchaikovasky romeo & juliet

[elihellsten]

Ask the conductor?

[Tom Coffey]

One important thing is not to get freaked out by that exposed passage. No one I know tries to do it in one breath. A simple strategy that has worked for me is to try to "sneak" a breath or two without making any more sound on the re-entry than is required. Staying "loose" and "in the moment" helps with control--you don't want the sound to waiver or change in dynamics, either, if you can help it.

[tbn.al]

Heard Michael Moore do it Friday night. I could swear he did it all in one breath. I was watching and listening for a breath and never saw or heard one. On his big horn too. And he is older than me. I was suitably impressed.

[joebob]

I would not ask the conductor because you could possibly get a really stupid answer and then you're stuck with it (better to ask forgiveness than to ask permission). If you can circular breath it without disrupting anything (ie loud snorting or wavering pitch) then just do that. Otherwise it works pretty well to breath while the bassoon is playing. Just make sure you don't breath when you're playing alone. In the past I've marked appropriate breathing places in my part. Make sure to play the note at sufficient volume so that it doesn't waver or quiver (don't play too soft).

[UDELBR]

If the timpani is out of tune, you're sunk.

+1 (played with more than my share of crappy, insensitive, out-of-tune tympanists...)

[Todd S. Malicoate]

Score study. Mark windows of opportunity to breathe.

Don't ask the conductor to do your work for you.

[Kevin Hendrick]

If the timpani is out of tune, you're sunk (lips will stop vibrating).

As far as holding it out long enough...

...uh...*aquarium pump...??

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*It'll vibrate somewhere around a B natural itself.

Something like that:

[DHMTuba]

I've performed the piece a couple of times. The last time I did it one of the bass players - who sat literally 10 feet away - asked me "How did you do that in one breath?" The answer was, I didn't - I took two extra breaths along the way!
Listen to a recording, and you'll hear two places where the orchestra crescendos then decrescendos while you're holding the note. Those are your opportunities to sneak a breath. The secret is, when you reenter after your breath, attack the note very softly and gently, then bring your volume up as the orchestra decrescendos. In other words, let the orchestra cover up your breath and your attack, then let your sound emerge from under the orchestra's sound. If you do it right the audience will perceive your note as a continuous sound. I was able to trick a good musician who was sitting only 10 feet away!
Let me give credit where it's due; I didn't think of this one by myself. Michael Thornton (RIP, Mike) taught it to me many years ago.
I suppose there are guys out there who can do it in one breath; if you can, more power to you. My vital capacity is only average and I think I'd be tempting fate to try to do it in one breath.
Nor would I ask the conductor about it, unless the conductor happened to be a professional orchestra tuba player!

[jeopardymaster]

There are places to sneak air without being caught, but I've always used circular breathing. Hey, if you can, why the F not?

[gary]

Re: the long b-natural in tchaikovasky romeo & juliet
by DHMTuba » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:27 pm

I've performed the piece a couple of times. The last time I did it one of the bass players - who sat literally 10 feet away - asked me "How did you do that in one breath?" The answer was, I didn't - I took two extra breaths along the way!
Listen to a recording, and you'll hear two places where the orchestra crescendos then decrescendos while you're holding the note. Those are your opportunities to sneak a breath. The secret is, when you reenter after your breath, attack the note very softly and gently, then bring your volume up as the orchestra decrescendos. In other words, let the orchestra cover up your breath and your attack, then let your sound emerge from under the orchestra's sound. If you do it right the audience will perceive your note as a continuous sound. I was able to trick a good musician who was sitting only 10 feet away!
Let me give credit where it's due; I didn't think of this one by myself. Michael Thornton (RIP, Mike) taught it to me many years ago.
I suppose there are guys out there who can do it in one breath; if you can, more power to you. My vital capacity is only average and I think I'd be tempting fate to try to do it in one breath.
Nor would I ask the conductor about it, unless the conductor happened to be a professional orchestra tuba player!

This is exactly how I do it and it works great. Fade out and then back in (breath attack) while the strings are playing. Make sure to mark it and stay away from the timpani.
Gary Sienkiewicz

[brianf]

During Jacobs masterclasses, oboe player would ask how they could play the solo in Tch 4 on one breath. The problem was that they had the air but the body demanded a breath. He would have them take multiple breaths before playing it purposely hyperventilating themselves. Now to the tuba and Tch R&J or 1812 - there are a few measures rest before a long sustained note. Use that time to do multiple inhalation/exhalations to get more oxygen into the bloodstream, yep, hyperventalate yourself. Like the oboist, you have enough air but the body wants you to breathe - by hyperventalating yourself, the body will demand the breath much later, preferably after the note is over. This works - He did it, I have done it.

[Art Hovey]

Don't ask, don't tell, and don't count. Just listen. Sneak your breaths where something else is happening to cover them up, not when you are out there all alone. You will know when to end it. The first time I did it the conductor actually said it was "beautiful". (Never happened before and never again.) When I played it again recently with a much better conductor he said nothing, which was fine with me.

[David Richoux]

If the timpani is out of tune, you're sunk (lips will stop vibrating).

As far as holding it out long enough...

...uh...*aquarium pump...??


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flick-it-small.jpg

one like this?

[Wyvern]

When I played this, there were already marks on the music where to sneak breath, which I followed and it worked fine

[Uncle Buck]

Dennis's answer is quite right and to the point. There are two oportunities for quick breaths in that passage. Don't try to wing this at the performance. This should be part of every orchestral tubist's DAILY practice routine.

+1. The technique of "sneaking breaths" is a much more important technique for orchestral playing than, for example, double or triple tonguing. But I wonder how much time is spent in the practice room on one rather than the other.

Of course I was guilty of the same thing when I was in college. But when my University orchestra played this piece, I did spend considerable time working on how to sneak in-and-out with as little notice as possible.

The performance was very different. This was one of my most memorable orchestral performances of my life - the conductor really made the performance more emotional than any of the rehearsals had been. I can't remember enough details about it to say exactly what he did differently in the performance, but I remember it as something "special." (and yeah, I'm not crazy about that word, but it applies here . . .)

My reason for mentioning that is that the performance was different enough (tempos, etc.), and I was a little more "caught up in the moment" than usual, that I just plain didn't have enough air to make it to my typical breathing spots. So I ended up winging-it during the performance. Not the ideal place for me to have been in, but I wouldn't trade that experience for anything. And I picked pretty good breathing spots on the fly.

Life happens. Prepare as best you can, but also be prepared to roll-with-it with an unexpected curve-ball happens.