Hawkes and Son Eb 4valve tuba

[Blastissimo]

I have a 4 valve Eb hawkes profundo special bore tuba, I'm estimating a build date of 1924. It's in relatively good shape, about 80% of the plating left, top three valves work well, the 4 th valve on the side leaks out of the back of the valve casing. There are no obvious dents in the valve or the casing, ideas? If I block the bottom hole on the valve casing I get a good note, if I remove the air stop it leaks and the notes fuzz out.
Also, anyone just happen to know what the bore size is on the horn?
Thanks for your help.

[PMeuph]

I have a 4 valve Eb hawkes profundo special bore tuba, I'm estimating a build date of 1924. It's in relatively good shape, about 80% of the plating left, top three valves work well, the 4 th valve on the side leaks out of the back of the valve casing. There are no obvious dents in the valve or the casing, ideas? If I block the bottom hole on the valve casing I get a good note, if I remove the air stop it leaks and the notes fuzz out.
Also, anyone just happen to know what the bore size is on the horn?
Thanks for your help.

Bore might be 0.620, 0.656 or 0.689... A set of calipers is pretty cheap on ebay/harbor freight/ etc... and will give you a definitive answer.

For the leaking valve, have you tried a thicker oil? (ie. 3-in-One mixed in valve oil). There's a good chance the valve might be worn...

[imperialbari]

I have an equally named tuba represented in my galleries, where I have written that the bore is 0.675", which certainly is special for British tubas.

I tried to open my source file, which was saved in Safari. The experience was new to me, as the file flashes up very briefly, so I can see that the contents look right, but then it goes white before there is any chance to print it to .pdf.

So I cannot access my source to check whether I have quoted the bore correctly. However I am reasonably used to reading bore dimensions, I likely got it right.

Klaus

PS: The 4th valve is important, but the above advise of using heavier oil is a good one, as you still will be able to use the 4th valve for improved pitch and range.

[Blastissimo]

Thank you Klaus, I'm coming up with the same bore size as well, which is surprising to me, I believe it's a .675 and for an Eb horn that's not bad. I have a 3/4 Hawkes BBb tuba which is a .660 bore (that's what the tech told me when I bought it, so I assume that's true.) I need to check that one as well.

I think I've found the "leak" problem in the 4th valve. I'm going to upload a picture and perhaps with all your wisdom you might suggest a fix? I think it's fairly certain, but who knows. The picture is of the valve's first air channel near the top of the valve.

I believe that's the leak. Anyone know where you can get a 90 year old Hawkes 4th valve? Or is it fixable?

Thanks for all your help and suggestions, great work. I'm cleaning the horn right now, we'll see how it turn's out.
Keith

mms_picture (3) (640x468).jpg

[Ken Herrick]

Just as I suspected. I've seen a lot like that.
A good tech could patch it if the base metal isn't too far gone. DON'T use plastic fillers.

IF the general condition of the tuba isn't too bad,it might be worth an Anderson valve rebuild. Make sure it plays at standard pitch-not high pitch as doing an LP conversion just isn't as good. I have rebuilt several of these old tubas and when finished, with a good valve refit are not bad- pretty well like a B&H imperial.

[Blastissimo]

Thanks Ken,
I thought so. Thank you for your advice and help.
Working on getting things back together at this point.

Neat horn, needs some work but it plays well when all together.
Keith

[Blastissimo]

The horn has been converted to Low Pitch some time ago, in fact I may have to have a half inch cut or so, it's a bit too corrected, plays consistently flat.
Got the valve patched and fixed, dremeled it down a bit and it blows freely at this point. Everything is working, I'm a bit "surprised" that the horn is as stuffy as it is, my 3/4 BBb Hawkes is a dream to play, just free and open works great in all registers even the false tone notes.
Could it be the fourth valve addition? I assume mine (Eb Hawkes) is NON-compensating, it does play well but it is a bit stuffy.
Let's just say that I was surprised at what came out of my Hawkes after it's cleaning bath. (bug, spiders, black gunk and a LOT of grease.)
I'm sure some of you have seen far worse. Any ideas on the stuffiness? Live with it, etc.... Would the Anderson valve job open that up some more?
Thanks for your help and advice.
Keith

[Blastissimo]

Took your advice and bought a caliper from harbor freight.
Took out the 2nd valves of all the horns and had fun measuring them...
The 1894 Distin Eb is almost dead on at .650 which for a horn that old was surprising.
The 19xx BBb St. Petersburg was a surprising.830 on the second valve and I measured the valves several times to make sure I was accurate.
The 1912 3/4 sized BBb Hawkes was .689 which I know is odd but I measured it 5 times to be sure. I think that's rather large for a Hawkes.
The 1924 Hawkes Eb was measured at .665 which surprised me, but I got the same size four times in a row.
So I'll put up some pictures soon.
City band concert this weekend, mostly Grainger, playing the big BBb, fun stuff.