Buying a Laptop computer?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 7:39 pm

The first thing to do is answer a few questions for yourself:

1. What am I going to use this for?
2. How much is enough (memory, CPU speed, screen size, battery life, etc.) for what I need to do?
3. How long do I intend to keep this thing?

My first bit of advice is never rely on a laptop for everything you're going to do. Have and maintain a desktop backup of some sort. Last week, my stockbroker called me up and asked if I wanted to rescue his dead hard drive. It seems he had the entire last month's transactions on them without a backup.

Secondly, do you really need the best and fastest? Consider a laptop from an off-lease outfit. You can save a ton of money on a very good laptop this way. As an example, have a look at the following vendor:

http://www.compucycle.net

If you're going to use a laptop for school, the low-cost approach might make sense, seeing how many of these things get stolen or destroyed. Save the bucks you didn't spend for a better horn or to pay off your student loan.

tubacdk · Post by **tubacdk** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:47 pm

hey, if you want something you can really rely on, get an iBook or PowerBook. If you consider the amount of software that comes native on the computer and how much time you'll save by not having to fiddle with your Windoze operating system to keep it working, the cost really isn't that different. Mac OS X is worlds better than Windoze XP, it's simply more stable, more efficient, easier to use, and has better features.

You can actually get refurbished iBooks and PowerBooks directly from Apple for a decent price here: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... 1.0?103,71

And don't let the MHz/GHz stats sway you... my 600MHz iBook runs faster than my 1.4GHz Dell PC that I use at work. Apple's processors are simply more efficient, not to mention that the OS is faster as well.

Okay, rant over. Buy Apple!!

-ck

DonShirer · Post by **DonShirer** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:45 pm

I am writing this on an Apple Titanium Powerbook which is the most convenient computer I have ever used (and I have used dozens of brands from the original IBM PC's and Apples to the present day). Apples were not always the fastest (though they are right up there today), but they were always the easiest to use. The iBooks are cheaper alternatives and almost as fast.

Apple has always hosted the best music and graphics programs, and despite the overwhelming number of Windows machines out there, there are plenty of Apple OS compatible software programs available. Nowadays it pays to get a model with a writable CD drive. And oh, yes, Apple seems to be immune to most viruses which are written to take advantage of Microsoft Windows loopholes.

Don S.

Wes Krygsman · Post by **Wes Krygsman** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:11 pm

I've been looking at the new Dell XPS's and even though they're costly, I'm hoping to save up for one. I just can't deal with this(my family's) computer and waiting for my 16 year old brother to get off AIM all the time.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 2:17 am

(NOTE: Anything I say that would put Windows in a bad light reflects in no way upon the user. After all, Microsoft writes it, not any of us.)

If you need to run software that is ONLY available for Windows, then find some flavor of Windows-compatible laptop. Otherwise, take a really serious look at the Apple laptops.

Viruses/worms/spyware/adware/etc. just aren't out there. Reformatting is simply not a regular occurrence, or even a rarely-needed fix (I haven't done that to either of my iBooks, and one is almost 5 years old). OS updates just get better & faster (that 5-year-old iBook of mine would be able to run OS X.3 just fine). I can install & delete applications at will without worrying whether a registry will be damaged (what's a registry anyway?) or .dll files might become broken.

I can read almost any disk, I can save files for Windows compatibility, I can get onto almost any network easily, and I can browse the web & receive email with impunity. That's the way a computer should run.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 11:34 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:My first bit of advice is never rely on a laptop for everything you're going to do. Have and maintain a desktop backup of some sort. Last week, my stockbroker called me up and asked if I wanted to rescue his dead hard drive. It seems he had the entire last month's transactions on them without a backup.

I do depend on my laptop for everything, but only with considerable caution. I was in Seattle last summer when my hard disk started acting up. I went to Office Max, bought an external hard disk and a copy of Norton Ghost, and did a full image backup. Two days later, I met a Dell technician in the lobby of the building across from my hotel, and he installed a new hard disk. Then, I did a restore from my Ghost backup, and kept right on working without the slightest hiccup.

But I was very lucky the disk died slowly, and that I recognized the signs. My backup back at the office was two weeks old by that point in my trip, and the lost data would have cost me a LOT more than $200 to regenerate.

I don't like depending on a desktop any more than a laptop, though. Those $200 external USB hard disks are awfully cheap as a backup, it seems to me. With Ghost, you get a deep backup. I start mine every couple of days when I leave the office, as long as I'm in town.

Rick "for whom a major data loss would be a monumental disaster" Denney

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 7:13 am

I also do all my work on my (wonderful Apple PowerBook G4 - I really recommend it) laptop, but I take local backups of my home directory every night (run as a cron job) and copy the backup file to my mailserver every week.
Ultimately, I will buy an external FireWire disk on which I can save my daily backups, but for now my current setup will have to suffice.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Apr 26, 2004 5:04 pm

Rick Denney wrote:I don't like depending on a desktop any more than a laptop, though. Those $200 external USB hard disks are awfully cheap as a backup, it seems to me. With Ghost, you get a deep backup. I start mine every couple of days when I leave the office, as long as I'm in town.

The impetus behind my recommending stashing stuff on a desktop for security is that laptops can be easily stolen, damaged (I'm sure you've heard about the guy who left his on his car roof just before he got onto the freeway) or maybe you'll run into an airport security guy who just broke up with his girlfriend..

At least if the data's at home or the office, you know where it is. If it's at the office, here's hoping that you have a system admin who has the sense to back up everyone's machine periodically.

I prefer DLT for backup--it's very fast and very reliable. But I still have a few very ancient backups buried in a desk drawer that were done on DC600 tape. Heaven knows if I'll ever need any of that stuff--I hope not, but if I do, I know where to find it--and I still have the hardware for reading it.

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:54 am

TubaNewsRose wrote: Sorry for the LONG post! I am passionate about processors... THIS is the computer I am buying myself for graduation...ordering it tomorrow, actually! Alienware Sentia (the Extreme, of course) :twisted:

Here's a system more to my liking, just not my budget. I haven't had time to check Linux compatibility yet though. It's probably similare the the Emachines Athlon64 notebooks though. I'm surprized more A64 notebooks aren't out there yet.

Chuck(G) wrote:I prefer DLT for backup--it's very fast and very reliable. But I still have a few very ancient backups buried in a desk drawer that were done on DC600 tape. Heaven knows if I'll ever need any of that stuff--I hope not, but if I do, I know where to find it--and I still have the hardware for reading it.

Becarefull of those old tapes. You shoukd check the storage of the tapes and the drives. I've seen many cases of a tape/drive failing a few years after the fact. And you only find out when it's too late. Another fun situation I've seen, is you have the drive and the tape, but no way to use them. I've got an old MFM tape drive I cannot use. The interface card is is 8bit ISA. Try finding a system that support that now. No drivers for current OSes, and most motherboards no longer have ISA slots. Ive got some useless VLB interface cards too.

-Thomas

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:36 am

ThomasDodd wrote:Becarefull of those old tapes. You shoukd check the storage of the tapes and the drives. I've seen many cases of a tape/drive failing a few years after the fact. And you only find out when it's too late. Another fun situation I've seen, is you have the drive and the tape, but no way to use them. I've got an old MFM tape drive I cannot use. The interface card is is 8bit ISA. Try finding a system that support that now. No drivers for current OSes, and most motherboards no longer have ISA slots. Ive got some useless VLB interface cards too.

We've always taken the high road on backup media--the large DC-xxx carts, followed by DLT. Always SCSI drives, so there's no interface problem. No floppy tapes, mini-DC-xxx, 4mm or 8mm (bad tape handling mechanisms), no proprietary media (e.g. 2.5mm micro tapes). I can still read backups I made 20 years ago.

But that's not quite fair--my firm deals in data recovery (this week, I'm working at recovering data from some hard-sectored diskettes written in 1979), so we do keep a lot of old hardware around and in good repair. We're called on at times to make recommendations regarding backup media and we warn against "pushing the technology". So high-capacity floppies (Zip, Superfloppies) are out, as are most cartridge-disk systems. DVD's look to be pretty safe, but I'd stay away from using an IDE hard drive as long-term storage; most are engineered for the lowest cost and highest possible capacity, not long-term reliability. Besides, if you drop one, it's often toast.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:42 am

Chuck(G) wrote:DVD's look to be pretty safe, but I'd stay away from using an IDE hard drive as long-term storage; most are engineered for the lowest cost and highest possible capacity, not long-term reliability. Besides, if you drop one, it's often toast.

(I was wondering if you would identify your bona fides in this area, heh, heh. I almost did for you.)

I'm hoping that the USB interface of my external backup drive will provide some of the same interface durability as SCSI.

As to dropping them, yes, of course. As to having them wear out, I use them only when making the backup. Normally it is unplugged.

The problem with DVD's is that they just don't hold enough. It takes five DVD's to back up my image archive, and that makes it an all-day affair to make a backup. I can back up the whole lot with one command at the end of the day using an external hard drive.

So, I use the external USB drive for routine backups, and the DVD's for occasional permanent storage.

The backup method that gets used is far better than the one that doesn't.

Rick "who found that affordable tape technologies changed too often" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Apr 28, 2004 11:47 am

schlepporello wrote:I bought the cheapest thing I could find and it wasn't six months before much better laptops with more bells and whistles were available for the same price.

That will be true no matter what you buy. Computer buyers just have to live with it. It's one reason I don't buy at the high end of the market--the steepest drop in price occurs there.

I would pick computers like tubas: Get one that has the features and performance you need. In the case of computers, needs may grow as fast as technology, so add in a growth factor. The price will be what it will be. If you spend less, you'll either get fewer features or lower quality (although spending more doesn't always insure against that). If you spend more, you may have spent too much. In a year, you'll have forgotten about the little extra you spend, but if your computer isn't meeting your needs, it will remind you of that every day.

Rick "who wishes his laptop had a DVD drive and a USB2 port" Denney

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Thu May 06, 2004 5:45 pm

schlepporello wrote:Oh yeah the viruses will come reguardless of what brand or how much you've spent.

Or just get a Mac...

(sorry, just had to say it!

)

finnbogi · Post by **finnbogi** » Thu May 06, 2004 7:58 pm

No, you don't have to be smart to operate a Mac. However, smart people tend to get along with Macs.

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:44 pm

You'd be surprised by how little I know about mucking around in the depths of the OS. Yes, there's a command line terminal available, but I can't even remember the last time I used it, and everything still runs fine.

I have very little patience for computers that don't work.

tjonp · Post by **tjonp** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:59 pm

schlepporello wrote:OK, a Mac is one of those kind that you have to be smart to operate, am I correct?

The original Mac in 1984 was designed to be the most user-friendly system on the market (considering its biggest competition was DOS, there wasn't much of a contest). Unfortunately, two decades of living in a Windoze-dominated world has made most people intimidated by Macs. They're still far easier to use then peecees, however.

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:32 pm

My wife uses Macs at her college and she would like to get a notebook computer to use. We have PCs at my school and the kids have PCs at their schools so we got a PC at home. Does anyone know where you might be able to buy a used Mac notebook? New they are pretty expensive. They start at like $1400 or so. Having just purchased a new car and living room furniture we can't really afford a new computer too.

ken k

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:42 pm

Brand-new G4 iBooks -- perfectly capable computers themselves (I've got two, a year-old G3 "iceBook" and a five-year-old original blueberry model running OS X.2 "Jaguar") -- start at $1099 for a 12" that's barely bigger than some spiral-bound notebooks (the paper ones, that is).

Or, check out sites like http://www.macprices.com for the latest deals. Amazon is selling the previous-version 800 MHz G4 12" iBook for under 900 bucks.

Adam C. · Post by **Adam C.** » Mon May 17, 2004 12:02 am

Keep in mind the vast majority of computer users are using Windows based PC's. If you just want to buck the trend, go all the way and build a Linux machine.

All this talk about reliability and crashing... my Windows XP machine has not "crashed" once in 2-3 years. I can leave the damn thing on for MONTHS without a reboot. The days of Win95/98/ME are gone people.

If you think you'll ever play real games on your computer, don't get a Mac.

If you might be simultaneously dealing with things on both your home computer and your work computer that is probably a PC, don't get a Mac.

In my opinion, Alienware is overpriced. They're generally hot rod machines built for gaming.

I think Dell has a good business; for a normal user you can't go wrong with them.

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