Weighing the merits of a DMA

[bort]

Even though many PhD's stay within the university system, there are still plenty who work in the private sector.

And even those who DO work at universities are often be hired/contracted by private sector companies. For example, I work in the education business. I've worked with a lot of PhD's and EdD's in my career so far, both as fellow employees at my company as as consultants. It is a good model -- a lot of university PhD's really aren't suited for the business world (and will readily admit it). I know my line of work is a bit unusual, but what you describe doesn't really ring true for me.

[bort]

For example, I work in the education business. I've worked with a lot of PhD's and EdD's in my career so far, both as fellow employees at my company as as consultants.

From where does this stray from anything I've suggested?

Because I work in the private sector. My point was that many doctors stay in universities, some of them cross over and do some private sector work, and others are entirely within the private sector. As a private sector employee, I have had a lot of experience with the latter two categories of highly educated people NOT working for the public.

[Donn]

Most probably don't view this as any sort of a problem...
I see legion shuttered buildings/industries where people formerly "did/accomplished" things, and more-and-more new structures/industries involved in "learning about" things. Is there a prudent balance somewhere? Have we reached/exceeded that balance?

Used to be the theory - we'd let the teeming masses in Asia dirty their hands with all that doing and making, while we specialize in the cerebral pursuits we're so spectacularly good at. The theory has sure sprung a leak or two, but practice has gone far enough that we can't afford to let the cerebral stuff wither on the vine too. Let the US become a backwater in science and knowledge, and our doom is sealed.

[tbn.al]

Our doom is already sealed. I know that to be a fact because I read it on tubenet and they can't put anything on tubenet that isn't true. And no, I don't date a French model.

[tbn.al]

Not me. I have two too many degrees that I'm not using already. I just want to spend my time posting. It amuses me.

[kontrabass]

Well, it seems to me - though I don't have any stats on this - that, with pretty much all of the major orchestras having turned over within the past ten years, there is a lot more competition for the few teaching positions that open up every year. If you're chasing security and comfort, I'm not sure that you'll find it in the academic world. As was stated here, universities are hiring increasingly fewer tenure track professors and more adjuncts. Adjuncts make little money and no benefits and can be turfed at any time. You could be hopping from midwest to northeast to alaska with no job security. That's IF you get a gig.

Furthermore a doctor of musical arts degree can potentially work against you, if you have any desire at all to do anything with your life besides be a college teacher. The statement "those that can't do, teach" is harsh but often a real perception among working professionals. If I was a ruthless businessman, and If you decide at some point that you want to go into business, after you get your DMA, and applied to my hypothetical company, I might look at your resume and say to myself, here's someone that couldn't hack it as a musician but was too scared of failing to try something else and so took a safety - pass. These final(!) years of your youth are precious. If you want to learn another skill, start a business, or get a second career - one that will keep you alive so you can play the tuba for fun in your free time - then now is the time.

I weighed this same decision and decided against doing a DMA for that reason, instead choosing to develop my freelance career in different genres, and learn about studio production techniques. That decision expanded my career options, while a DMA would have narrowed them.

[swillafew]

I could apply to be a DMA student. If it was anything like the last program, it would be less work to get a non music degree worth ten times the money. In defense of the MM, it was sometimes a lot of fun. After getting it, I equalled my music income moving into banking with no experience.

[Biggs]

_____
To the OP, have you read this article:
http://chronicle.com/article/Graduate-S ... -the/44846" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Something quite telling about graduate school is that the article linked here was written by Thomas H. Benton - a pseudonym for a Harvard professor who has since come forward. The fact that this man, a formidable member of the higher learning establishment, was too afraid to speak freely about his beliefs and experiences with graduate school, indicates that lesser mortals ought to be afraid as well.

[adam0408]

Thank you for the useful replies. I definitely didn't intend on sparking a discussion of the morality or merits of the higher education system though.

I realize that a doctorate is only another piece of paper and its only practical purpose related to music is a college job, which I think I'd like. I've looked (admittedly not too hard at this point) for jobs in the academic world related to music and 95% of the postings list a DMA or PHD as a requirement. Yes, there probably are jobs out there that don't require a Dr., but somebody's already got those jobs apparently.

Idealistically, I'm into the whole academia thing. Although it has its flaws (some pretty glaring) I think that a college degree is still very beneficial on many levels. One of the main reasons I would want to teach at the collegiate level is to tell kids things that no one ever told me and I had to figure out the hard way. REalistically, it is difficult to justify something with such an unsure payout, but I would love to continue my education for the purpose of bettering my mind.

I have plenty of time to think about this, since deadlines for application seem to be Jan/Feb.

[adam0408]

Completing any degree will instill discipline.
It will also point you towards effective ways to discover information and to present/distribute it to others.
Supposedly, those sorts of things are some of the actual "reasons" (other than having one being required to be a salesmen of them) for pursuing and achieving degrees.

Good gracious, tell us how you REALLY feel about higher ed.

Yes, education can be a cruel system of bull with no actual real-world benefit to the student. I am living proof of that. However, I would definitely not be the musician or the person I am today without the benefits of the higher education system. The things I got out of school, while not practical in the sense of putting food on the table, were very vaulable to me personally. I, like everyone, am trying to find my place in the world, and someone to pay me to occupy that place.

Yes colleges "sell degrees" but those degrees can and do help people in life.

[sloan]

If you are thinking of going to grad school (in *any* discipline) because you think it will get you a
specific job...DON'T.

In my experience, the people who get those jobs go to grad school because...they want what grad school
has to offer, and NOT because it's a credential that qualifies them for the job...later.

What qualifies them for the job is the desire to do the kinds of things you do in grad school, and beyond.
Think about that for awhile. Those who hear the call do well in grad school and do well afterwards - but you
can't CHOOSE to hear the call. It's not a choice, it's a recognition of who you are and what you want out of life.

As I tell all my students - if you don't like grad school, you will HATE being a professor (or whatever else it is you think you are "qualifying for").

so - to the OP: WHY are you considering a DMA? What do you expect to do during those years? What do you expect to accomplish. Don't tell me about how wonderful it will be when it's all over - tell me about WHY you
are considering doing it.

If your answer concentrates on the years actually in grad school - go for it.

If your answer concentrates on the rewards after graduations - run, do not walk, as fast as you can in the other direction. Get some training in a marketable skill (like, perhaps, note production on a tuba...) and get a job.


I went grad school (twice) 40 years ago. I'm still doing essentially the same thing (day to day) - I'm just better at it (and get paid more - but I probably would be making A LOT more money without grad school). I wouldn't trade it for the world. But, I wouldn't ADVISE anyone else to do it.

[sloan]

If you are thinking of going to grad school (in *any* discipline) because you think it will get you a
specific job...DON'T.

...which is why I usually encourage people to consider other plans, because my experience is that the vast majority of those who express to me reasons for "going back to school" is "to get a job".

I understand that a degree from a Seminary is required for some jobs, and there is nearly 100% job placement for
those who graduate.

[nycbone]

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[JTJ]

The "adjunct" thing also seems to be snowballing.

Yes, and in the private sector, the scandalous expectation & use of unpaid internships.

[nycbone]

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[nycbone]

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[adam0408]

It seems that prospects are pretty dark. I've now done quite a bit of research on this subject and I must say that I am less than excited about the opportunities waiting after a doctorate of any sort. I was looking for positive stories and all I got was a bunch of stuff screaming "DON'T DO IT!!" This is really looking like a bad, bad idea.

It does speak to the lack of quality in higher education when professors are treated like expendible resources. (wether or not the majority are is a question up for debate) This is a practice that is not effective in any field. I've seen it in restaurants numerous times. It seems to me in a career this fosters an attitude of "working just hard enough not to get fired." Or, if you're probably gonna be let go anyway, why apply yourself at all?

Now that I think of it I've seen several of my former professors, all of them very capable and excellent teachers, fall prey to the unfortunate decisions made at administration levels that cause them not to get tenure and even get "fired." It boggles my mind that people still ascribe to the fantasy of professorship when all the evidence points that it is nothing like what they say.

Another problem that has been nagging at the back of my mind is that most tenured professors who have made a life out of teaching began when the job climate was much, much different and have zero perspective on the current academic and professional climate.

I have a friend who is a visual artist with an MFA I believe who just got a tenure track position in Michigan. He expressed some well-founded trepidation about getting fired before receiving tenure. I sincerely hope he makes a very long and fruitful career in academic world, as he seems to be one of the lucky ones.

Testing the temperature of the waters on this issue has led me to the conclusion that they are frigid and very uninviting.

[Ken Herrick]

Welcome to the "real world". It can be devastating to find that what you have been told " ain't neecessarily so", but you now, possibly, have a clearer view of what could be ahead.

Many of those in the upper levels of academia have never been outside that cloistered realm and just don't know any better. Then too, without a steady stream of aspirants to their jobs, they wouldn't have their jobs.

If nothing else, you started one of the better discussions wr have had here.

All the best in whatever you do take on.

[sloan]

"Prospects are dark" only if you hold on to this silly idea that a DMA or a PhD is something painful
you do now in exchange for something wonderful that happens to you later. A sort of Calvinist approach to education.

Education should not be like hitting your head against the wall ("it feels so good when I stop!").

In my (personal) experience, it hurt when I *stopped* - so I went back for more...and never left.

This is true at all levels, starting in college. If you view it as a necessary evil which will pay off in the end,
you should stop. Go and do something else. IT WILL NOT GET BETTER, and IT WILL NOT BE WORTH IT IN THE END. If you are 18 and college seems irrelevant, go and get a job, or join the Navy. Learn a trade, and practice it. Perhaps later you'll change your mind...perhaps not. If you have graduated from college and can't stand the thought of grad school - do not be tempted by promises of a better future - the future starts now. Get a job. If you think that it is DELAYING your "real life" - you are right. Only recognize that for other people it IS their life. One size does NOT fit all. What works for Harry may not work for Joe.

"Doctor, Doctor...it hurts when I do that". "Don't do that!"

The means justify the ends.