First suite in Eb

[tbn.al]

[ Anyone have a copy of this in Holst's pen?

Ask and ye shall recieve.

http://www.windrep.org/Articles:First_Suite" target="_blank

[finnbogi]

Neptune, according to this Britain used the F tuba, gradually replaced by the Eb, mainly after WWII.

If you read more carefully, you will find that after the Second World War, the F tubas which had previously been prevalent in orchestras were gradually replaced by E flat tubas which had already been used in bands for decades, as part of the Saxhorn family.

[tbn.al]

He also doubled the low G an octave higher in at least one instance in his original score. He wrote the part for Bombardon which could have been just used as an affection or specifically. In any event Bombardons were available in different sizes and keys. I would imagine who ever showed up played it on whatever they happened to have in thier hands, doubling octaves wherever necessary, much like we do in community bands today.

[Wyvern]

Neptune, according to this Britain used the F tuba, gradually replaced by the Eb, mainly after WWII.

If you read more carefully, you will find that after the Second World War, the F tubas which had previously been prevalent in orchestras were gradually replaced by E flat tubas which had already been used in bands for decades, as part of the Saxhorn family.

This piece was premiered in 1920, which is a couple decades prior to the second world war. I found nothing about a big horn, but since the low G was written by Holst, there is a good chance a contrabass tuba was used.

It has never been the practice for British military bands to use F tubas. They were in the past considered orchestral tubas in UK.

The British military have long used compensated 4-valve EEb basses (as they were called), so a low G would not cause any problems - although in larger bands, the lower part would usually be played on compensated BBb bass to give more depth of tone - back in 1920's that would have been 3-valve compensator.

[imperialbari]

That contractor must have had some skull contractions. At least not been very informed on Buescher’s recycling of part designs between tubas and circlophones.

[sousaphone68]

In the bands I play in we are very lucky to have a large collection of what the members call brown music due to the age of the paper.
These are original folio sized music sheets of what would have been the pop songs of their day overtures from operas and novelty pieces like In a monastery garden.

What I like about them most is the instrument ads on the back page.
I often wished for time travel to go back and buy the monster bass or bombarden for £5.

These ads are always for Eb or Bb tubas never F.

In the oldest band we have photos and the original instruments either on display or storage I am unable to find any F or C tubas in the records.

So while Neptune's statement maybe anecdotal I would have to think his source like mine would be life and experience coupled with the luck to have access to very old bands and banding tradition.
When I joined St James brass and reed in 1985 my instrument was a Regent 4 valve Calvary bass bought in 1937.
I was also lucky enough to play next to a Bb player that has been an active member of the band since 1932 he still plays his 1937 issued tuba I wish I had paid more attention to his stories when I was younger.

[TinyTubist97]

I dont see how it's such an issue for me to have an F tuba. I've used it on multiple auditions so it's not like its just a little novelty or anything. In my opinion, if I have the opportunity to get a head start on my competition why in world shouldn't I?

[Donn]

I dont see how it's such an issue for me to have an F tuba.

It is not an issue, at all. None of us are called upon to justify our instrument possessions, thank heavens! Tubenet can be a bit of a swamp at times, just disregard the occasional weirdness and keep slogging ahead!

[MaryAnn]

Wow, I have never seen a Crested Cobra before.
MA

[tubistsmom]

I dont see how it's such an issue for me to have an F tuba. I've used it on multiple auditions so it's not like its just a little novelty or anything. In my opinion, if I have the opportunity to get a head start on my competition why in world shouldn't I?

High school auditions?

This young musician plays tuba in the Atlanta Symphony Youth Orchestra and is likely referring to auditions where playing solo works are a requirement.

[Lee Stofer]

Tinytubist 97,
Congratulations for having an F-tuba at a rather young age! The only other reason I could think of it being an issue might be because of envy from some other Tubenetters.

Enjoy what you have, and make the most of it. I've performed a Holst work on F tuba before, and I'd suspect that very few if any audience members knew or cared what key the instrument was. All they cared about was what came out of the bell.

And, thank-you to tubistsmom for clarifying things a bit.

[pgym]

The only other reason I could think of it being an issue might be because of envy from some other Tubenetters.

THIS.

[tbn.al]

Now that his mom has chimed in I realize that I know who the OP is and have heard him with the ASYO on a couple of occaisions. His maturity as a musician and tubist is well beyond his years. He can play the Holst on anything he wants and I will be happy to listen.

[Biggs]

I dont see how it's such an issue for me to have an F tuba. I've used it on multiple auditions so it's not like its just a little novelty or anything. In my opinion, if I have the opportunity to get a head start on my competition why in world shouldn't I?

High school auditions? F tuba is not to improve range, it is a different sound and feel. Use it for pieces where it makes sense to use it. This would not be the choice. There are many good tubists that can do everything on one horn. As a section leader, think what would help your section the most, I might be in a community band but I played in college and high school bands. Can the other 3 handle the top part without you there? Are others playing this part?

Good lord man, he's just a kid. Stop crying and go practice.

This thread could use another dose of "racism."

[tbn.al]

That would be nice if I was a professional musician. The user asked advice.

Criticism = Advice ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[imperialbari]

This thread has strayed, so I have to ask:

Have there any valid arguments (based on Holst’s written intentions) that promote a tuba playing the upper octave line of the opening statement?

When the upper octave line is played by the euphonium(-s), the addition of a tuba to the upper line does not give added clarity. It adds to the mud. Just to counter a point of view with which I disagree.

Klaus

[eupher61]

Tiny, do it if your director wants to try it. If it works, great! If not, oh well.

I can't think of any reason it shouldn't work, unless the other players can't handle the lower octave. It is part of the original concept, after all, no matter what anyone else says. Holst wrote for what he knew, which was British tradition including woodwinds and brass bands.

[derrenba]

CLDMusic was given more criticism than advice

and if you look in a mirror, you'll see the only person dishing out criticism.

[tbn.al]

This thread has strayed, so I have to ask:

Have there any valid arguments (based on Holst’s written intentions) that promote a tuba playing the upper octave line of the opening statement?

When the upper octave line is played by the euphonium(-s), the addition of a tuba to the upper line does not give added clarity. It adds to the mud. Just to counter a point of view with which I disagree.

Klaus

Check this out http://www.windrep.org/Articles:First_Suite" target="_blank" target="_blank Scrll down and you can see it in Holst's on writing. The Euph is doubling an octave up and the only double in the Bombard line is the low G.

[imperialbari]

I have read through all of the manuscript excerpts and didn’t find the opening passage. The negative result may be my error, so please provide the address for the given .jpg presentation.

Klaus