College help?

[cmonte]

Hey! I was hoping some of you guys could help me out;
I'm a senior in high school and I'm looking for opinions on colleges. I'm going to major for music education and I got accepted to the University or Memphis, Iowa and Augustana College and I'm still waiting for the University of Illinois to tell me if I got accepted.
I also applied to VanderCook and am waiting for a response as well. But it doesn't have as many performance opportunities like in a university as I'd like, but the education program looks great.
I'm just asking for opinions and suggestions.
Thanks!

[PMeuph]

If I were you, I would make a pro/con list.

Include things like:
-Money (either scholarships or tuition)
-Cost of living at that school
-Performance opportunities (both in the department and in town)
-Placement rates after graduation
-Quality of faculty (both the applied instructor and all the music faculty)
-Travelling between home and these places (ie. the necessity of owning a car)
etc...


I don't know any of those programs, but you should get in touch with people who do if you're still struggling to make a decision. (Maybe contact the applied instructors(ie. tuba teacher) and ask for the contact info of a student who would volunteer to talk to you for a couple minutes).

[Jay Bertolet]

Even though you're majoring in education, my first yardstick of your choices would be which of the private instructors for your instrument fits you best. Have you gone to these places and taken a lesson from your prospective teachers? I'd be surprised if all of them seem the same to you. A good teacher is more than just someone that conveys information to you. They are also a bit of a mentor, proving to you that they are invested in your success as a student and, ultimately, a professional. If you don't feel that special relationship, you may wish to look elsewhere.

[royjohn]

I think PMeuph's idea of a pro/con list is a great one. In particular you need to look at how the economic factors of tuition and living costs will play out against the placement rate and probable salary you could expect. As a retired guy back at the local university taking courses, I see some rather unwise choices being made by kids who should stop and think. For example, some of my classmates are taking two semesters of Italian in a five week immersion course in Urbino, Italy for about $5,000. I'll probably get the same immersion experience by volunteering in Italy at a cost of about $1,800.

It isn't too late to devote your spring break to a trip to see some or all of these colleges. Possibly eliminating one or two with the pro/con list would allow you more time to devote to a trip or trips to the other two or three. The idea of taking a lesson with the person you would be studying with is also almost required. What if you get there and the two of you don't hit it off? If this person doesn't like your tuba or mouthpiece or style or looks, you could be in for several years of misery and poor grades. In my current college career, I've been pleasantly surprised by how helpful and expert my teachers have been, but, out of five courses, I ended up dropping one because the professor and I just didn't see eye to eye. He's a fairly well known and well thought of professor who most students give rave reviews to, but he and I didn't get along well. This could happen to you. Also, I notice that professors have varying degrees of connection to the music world outside their studio. Ideally, you'd like to study with someone who can help you after graduation with recommendations and introductions.

I know a trumpet student at Arizona State who is studying with the renowned David Hickman. He and Hickman get along well and he's assured of a recommendation that really means something when he's done. This could happen to you, or you could study with someone with whom your connection is bad, or just so-so. You could also end up somewhere where the tuba students take from an adjunct, because the tuba program is am afterthought. I don't know the schools you've applied to, but I hope you have looked into them and their faculty, opportunities and facilities. You wouldn't buy a car without seeing it and kicking the tires, so don't buy a university education that could cost you $40 to $100K without thorough research.

[Todd S. Malicoate]

...every musician I know who went to Illinois hated it.

What a bizarre observation. I have two colleagues who got degrees there who only have good things to say about IU. What makes my anecdotal evidence any better or worse than yours?

[The Big Ben]

I knew 3 people who went there about 20 years ago on woodwind and string instruments who majored in music and transferred the next year. I can't speak for their brass program and what has changed in 20 years.

"Every" is quite a few more than three who didn't play brass and went there twenty years ago.

[Biggs]

The College-Picking Rules, Music Major Edition:

1.) Practice rooms look the same at every school.

2.) A strong tuba studio means nothing without a strong school of music.
- Without the personnel (both numbers and ability) to play large-scale, challenging band/orchestra works...
- Without other individuals your age/ability level to play chamber music (quintets, etc.)...
- Without ambitious conductors/professors to expose, challenge, and hold you accountable...
...it would be easy for a tuba student to get bored.

3.) Being the best member of a weak studio doesn't do much for your motivation to practice or expose you to new and challenging repertoire for your instrument. Having to compete for playing time/ensemble placement is a powerful motivational tool. Are you studying the tuba to improve, or not?

4.) Like your teacher. Have overlapping goals.

5.) Like the place you're going to live. You'll be there for four years, perhaps longer. You'll be buying groceries, going on dates, turning 21, and experiencing independence, culture, and all that other college-brochure hokum. Make sure you doing all this in an environment that you genuinely enjoy living in. This rule goes for all majors, at all levels of study.



For the Nose-Picking Rules, buy my next book.

[Mark]

Decide where you might want to teach after graduation. Ask as many music teachers in that area where they got their degrees. If there is a trend to a few schools (and there usually is), seriously consider those and then follow some of the checklists above.

[royjohn]

Wow! great thread. When you visit the schools, do as Jason suggests. If you can go when students are around, you can wander the halls and start some impromptu conversations with students and find out how they like the school, esp. the low brass guys . . . very important to find out what the students think.

[tubarepair]

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If music doesn't work out or I want to change majors, is the college I chose going to offer me what I may want/need?

Daryl

[Ken Herrick]

Have a look in the "auditions" forum.
WIU at Macomb has a talent grant program which could make it very attractive.

WIU, being a state university would have several plusses for a musuc ED major who might want to teach in Il.

[sloan]

a) do a pro/con list and rank order the ones you have been accepted at (or might be).
b) #1 on your list should be "overall quality of the college". A close second should be
"overall quality of the students". You will learn far more from your fellow students than you will from the faculty.
c) Since your first choice of major is music ED - consider whether you want to teach
in that state.
d) Since the average college student changes majors 3 times - consider what ELSE you might
be interested in and look at THOSE programs.
e) consider cost. Tuition, travel, etc.
f) The Princeton Band

VISIT the places at the top of your rank ordered list. Pay attention to your reaction to the city, the campus, the students, and the faculty. Wait for the "oh, wow" factor to kick in.

Above all - don't put too much emphasis on any ONE faculty member. Undergraduate education is not that tightly focused. You need a certain base level of good feelings about the Music Ed program and the leader of the studio for your primary instrument - but this really only covers 1/3 of your entire program. The other 2/3 is important, too (duh!). Pay attention to what is going on OUTSIDE the practice room, the rehearsal hall, and the Music Ed building.

[pierso20]

Not to be overlooked!!!!!

What are the local schools like? Are there strong music programs in those schools? Is the university in an area you would like to teach? Chances are you will do a lot of learning in those local schools AND that area (or region) is likely where you will make job connections and land a job. Not a requirement as you can find a job anywhere** but treat that area as your new home. Jobs are scarce and you can't underestimate the power of the region you go to school in and the connections you make.


**Jobs are HARD to come by for music ed these days....fyi...as I'm sure you know.

[cmonte]

**Jobs are HARD to come by for music ed these days....fyi...as I'm sure you know.

That's why I came up with this post, I was asking for ideas on how to pick a college.
I was also thinking that I get both performing and education in college so I could perform before and/or during when I would teach.

[pierso20]

**Jobs are HARD to come by for music ed these days....fyi...as I'm sure you know.

That's why I came up with this post, I was asking for ideas on how to pick a college.
I was also thinking that I get both performing and education in college so I could perform before and/or during when I would teach.

You don't new a performance degree to perform. But you need an education degree to teach. Just a thought to keep in mind.

[pgym]

Above all - don't put too much emphasis on any ONE faculty member. Undergraduate education is not that tightly focused. You need a certain base level of good feelings about the Music Ed program and the leader of the studio for your primary instrument - but this really only covers 1/3 of your entire program. The other 2/3 is important, too (duh!). Pay attention to what is going on OUTSIDE the practice room, the rehearsal hall, and the Music Ed building.

+1

Several posters have recommended taking a lesson from your prospective instructor, and compatibility between teacher and student IS important, however, recognize that you may not end up studying with the person you go to study with. Faculty members leave for other schools, move up/over into administration, take sabbaticals, retire, pass away, or have too many students to teach personally, so they assign some/most to graduate students. If your primary reason for attending School X is to study with Prof Y, would you still want to be there if, for one reason or another, Prof Y isn't available to teach you?

Spend a day or two at each of the campuses taking in the campus (and community) environment/atmosphere, community and student life, AND academics beyond the music department, and ask yourself, "Is this a place I WANT to spend the next four years of my life?" If the answer is, "No," strike the school from your list.

Unless you're attending a conservatory, at least half (and probably closer to 75%) of your undergrad coursework will be outside of your major, the majority of people you interact with on a daily basis will be non-music majors, and a significant (>50%) proportion of your time will be spent on non-music-related activities, so if you don't like the overall atmosphere of the school you end up attending, you're going to hate the entire experience.

[Jess Haney]

[quote="Biggs"]The College-Picking Rules, Music Major Edition:

1.) Practice rooms look the same at every school.

2.) A strong tuba studio means nothing without a strong school of music.
- Without the personnel (both numbers and ability) to play large-scale, challenging band/orchestra works...
- Without other individuals your age/ability level to play chamber music (quintets, etc.)...
- Without ambitious conductors/professors to expose, challenge, and hold you accountable...
...it would be easy for a tuba student to get bored.

3.) Being the best member of a weak studio doesn't do much for your motivation to practice or expose you to new and challenging repertoire for your instrument. Having to compete for playing time/ensemble placement is a powerful motivational tool. Are you studying the tuba to improve, or not?

4.) Like your teacher. Have overlapping goals.

5.) Like the place you're going to live. You'll be there for four years, perhaps longer. You'll be buying groceries, going on dates, turning 21, and experiencing independence, culture, and all that other college-brochure hokum. Make sure you doing all this in an environment that you genuinely enjoy living in. This rule goes for all majors, at all levels of study. [quote]

Great advice. When I was at school the studio was weak for the first two years I was at college. And biggs is right I was bored. I got a good scholorship but was kind of the star and no one to really challenge me. I look back now and wish I had spent more time in the practice room trying to beat out another student than hitting the keg. My last few years a freshman came in who was smoking and blew my doors down at his audition. He did flight of the bumble bee from memory and my mouth dropped. He had tecnique, finesse and great range. He couldnt read for beans but he had somethings at that time I did not and my last two years were very productive. I also had 3 different teachers in that time and that was both a bonus and drawback. Each one gave me something great but I wish I would have had my last one for all 4 years. He was an actual tuba player (not euph or trombone) and new how to approach some of the tuba specific issues.

[cmonte]

These are great ideas guys! This is really helping the search
Another thing came up:
What are pros and cons if I am to take a year off to knock off some gen eds and save some money?

[pierso20]

These are great ideas guys! This is really helping the search
Another thing came up:
What are pros and cons if I am to take a year off to knock off some gen eds and save some money?

Most music programs have a very sequential curriculum so you will graduate further along.

You will save money if you do that with gen eds, though make super sure things transfer (ie, you take gen eds at comm. college).