Ideal beginner instrument/case

[Arnie]

Hi all
I am building a low brass program at a school in Australia and I would like some ideas on the ideal instrument for beginners. At the moment they have a few Yamaha YBB-105 and YEB-321. As I am trying to build this program for students as young as 10, a compact instrument is essential, but also a robust but small/light case. Many of the students travel to school on public transport and are obviously not keen on big bulky cases.
Are any of the big manufacturers looking into manageable hard cases? There have been great improvements in Carbon Fibre - a specialist manufacturer in Europe (accord cases) does a tuba hard case that weighs only 6kg (13lb) for around $2k. Are any of the big makers looking into this? The difficulty in schlepping a tuba around is a big turnoff for prospective students (and their parents) and I imagine many schools/students would be very interested in such a case. The 'cool' factor wouldn't hurt - cello players seem happy with their coloured shaped cases, but bulky grey boxes with squeaky wheels and wonky hinges are a bit of a turn off.
So, with this in mind, if we are to invest in a few new instruments what should we buy?
Ta, Adam

[royjohn]

I don't know how feasible this is, but another idea if short on tubas would be to provide practice time for students before or after school. If this were possible, it would also allow for encouragement or looking in on the kids' practice. Even some impromptu ensemble playing once in a while. You would also know who was practicing and who was not! If you provided some snacks and drinks you would attract players to practice.

Tubas could go home on weekends, I guess. Organization that would allow band parents to drive students home with tubas on Fridays and back on Mondays, or arrangements that would allow tubas to be pre-loaded on the school bus on Friday and allow extra time to get them in or out of the cargo bay on the route and back to the band room on Monday might also help. I don't know how I'd get my tuba onto or down the aisle of a school bus! Not to mention the merciless ribbing of the freshman tuba player by the do-nothing seniors in the back of the bus!

[Jay Bertolet]

bloke "as an 11-year-old beginner in 1969 (and rating the three above indexes as 6, 0, and 7, respectively), my (one) school/home instrument was an old King brass sousaphone... I took it home on my back - riding my bike...bell turned away from the wind...and it just didn't occur to me that it was any big deal."

Thanks very much for the wonderful memory! I remember riding my bike back and forth to HS wearing a Conn fiberglass sousaphone except I wasn't smart enough to point the bell away from the wind and instead tended to practice while I pedaled (so to speak).

[Mark]

bloke "as an 11-year-old beginner in 1969 (and rating the three above indexes as 6, 0, and 7, respectively), my (one) school/home instrument was an old King brass sousaphone... I took it home on my back - riding my bike...bell turned away from the wind...and it just didn't occur to me that it was any big deal."

Thanks very much for the wonderful memory! I remember riding my bike back and forth to HS wearing a Conn fiberglass sousaphone except I wasn't smart enough to point the bell away from the wind and instead tended to practice while I pedaled (so to speak).

In Junior High (no Middle School then) I took a brass King sousaphone home everyday. I usually left the bell at school. Somehow, I still ended up with a pretty good tone.

[tofu]

Sidestepping the grumpy old men "when I was a child I had to ride my bike 50 miles to school with a sousaphone/plus a hundred pounds of coal on my back for the stove/through three feet of snow in -15 degree cold/into a gale force wind/with wolves nipping at my heels and Indians throwing hatchets at my head" responses -

A horn/case combo that would seem to be what you are seeking would be a Joseph Lidl BBb

Lightweight - 16 lbs
compact - 34 inch
4 fast rotary valves

comes in an excellent Jacob Winter case. The horn in case really feels like it is just a big euphonium in case. Amazing small package. These Jacob Winter hard cases are superb for everyday transport

It is easy to carry, but also has wheels and can be pulled.

Horn is very well made (really handmade) and for it's lightweight size puts out a lot of sound. I would say it plays like a free blowing F tuba with a real low range and no funky intonation.

For it's level of quality it still is a very reasonable price.

The downside is they don't make a lot of them. I've heard tuba production is maybe 60 a year. I think the Horn Guys sell them for $4400

This thing makes a 2341 look like a pig. I own both and the King is an excellent horn that is capable on its own of holding down a large group, but that is not a luggable everyday on and off the bus. In the case it is huge and simply no comparison to the Lidl which I also own. I don't hesitate to take the Lidl in its case on the train. I wouldn't even think about it with the King.

[Arnie]

- How much do the teachers push the children to be the best they can possibly be?
- How much money is available?
- How hands-on or how neglectful are most of the parents?

All excellent questions.
a) I don't know where it is at in the US, but there is a big push by Government (of both sides) to produce literacy and numeracy results, meaning some teachers at the school push music importance down the list. Likewise, with rising obesity rates there is a big 'moral' push for active healthy children, meaning sport pushes music down the list of importance. Music staff fight their battles, but the message going home to parents, especially those who did not experience music at school themselves, is that effort should be made to make a child do their maths homework and make it to footy training on time, and if there is time to squeeze in a little music, then ok.
b) The school is quite well resourced. An instrument at home and at school would be possible. I was wondering if there was an instrument/case that could avoid that. If, for the price of one and a half instruments you could get one instrument with a super-light portable, and even possibly funky looking case then maybe tuba would be more appealing. The students would also feel a little more ownership of their horns too.
c) See above - parents want the best for their children, but cannot always drive them to school or be there on time to pick them up, and often get mixed messages on the value of music education.

I will look into these suggestions. A before school practice session would be a possibility. Two horns each is a possibility. And, I will look into the models suggested.

Thanks for the feedback.

[royjohn]

Arnie,

I think you've come up with a very interesting thread and with some very interesting ideas about what's happening to music in the schools in your part of the world. I, for one, would be very interested in hearing where you end up on this question and how it all works out. It would be a great continuation to this thread.

Best of luck as you fight the good fight for musical education. I'm sure you know that kids who play a musical instrument do better in other subjects and that there's a correlation between success in music and maths . . .

[jacobg]

He brings up a good point. If the Chinese have managed to make convincing knock-offs of high-end European and Japanese tubas, why can't they make knock-offs of high-end European tuba cases? You would think it would be easier than making the tuba itself, and there would be more demand, considering there is only one manufacturer in the world that I know of that makes carbon fiber tuba cases (accord). Ditto with trombone cases. They seem to have jumped on cello cases already, though.