Jin Bao vs. Firebird

[charvette1000]

Most of these companies like Thomann, musicstore, dv247.com etc. promise or give the impression that they inspect the instruments before shipping.
No they don't. Not at least guitars. I have ordered new guitars (cheap and expensive) from all the mentioned companies and every single one has arrived well packed and taped and never opened after leaving the factory. And I have returned several instruments because of the quality issues.

...I bought the tuba from musicstore.de, and have a strong suspicion based on their extremely competitive price and from the state the box was in they don't check the instruments before shipping but shove them straight from the container into the UPS truck...

Hmm, have you asked them if they inspect the instruments prior to shipping to the end customer? I have not, but the one (new) jinbao instrument I have bought from them did come in an opened and then resealed package and did not smell?! However the smelly cases I wrote about did come from several other sources, in europe, none of them in a factory sealed package though.

[tubaforce]

Always check the tape!
I know Mack, Neptune, and myself always test our horns before shipping them out! I'm reasonably sure Matt Walters and a few other's do too! "Caveat Emptor" !

Al

[corbasse]

And just be assured: The smell of solvents was breathtaking. I left the instrument open on a stand for a couple of days but I still started to feel sick after playing the tuba for like 15 minutes. Add a scratchy 4th valve, and so we never got to be friends.

Mine did stink for a week or so, and the smell permeated the room where I put it for the first few days. The smell reminded me of the insecticides they spray around on intercontinental flights, but it could also be the glue used in constructing the case.
I'll start to thoroughly test the horn today (had a small "exam" yesterday on BBb so I had to concentrate on that before) I still have some time left to decide if the instrument is good enough to keep or to send it back.
[Edit]I just played a good 40 min. on it and I must say I feel slightly heady, and not in the usual too much oxygen from blowing hard way... [/edit]

It is two ways of doing business. It sounds like musicstore.de work on the supermarket basis, where as from me you will get personal service, checking and chance to play test before purchase.
Thanks for mentioning musicstore.de - I was not aware of them selling JinBao and will now reference my prices against theirs, and match price if you quote them selling the same model cheaper than Wessex Tubas, although my profits are already kept to a minimum.

Musicstore is clearly a sort of musical Aldi*, what we in Dutch call a "dozenschuiver" (box-shover, all they do is take a box from storage and shove it over the counter into your hands). Their return policy is based on the customer doing the QA, nothing wrong with that as long as the customer is knowlegeable enough and the merchandise good enough.

I already was under the impression you went into the tuba selling business to provide a service to tuba players, not to move to a large villa in Buckinghamshire next year. Because of their pricing I was wondering wether the musicstore F's maybe were b-stock, or they ordered them in very large quantities. I'm looking forward to see for myself what you have in stock this summer.


* for our non-European friends: Aldi is a supermarket chain focussing on selling B- and C-brands at extremely low prices. The pallets of goods are simply rolled into the store and the customers have to unpack the pallets themselves.

[MartyNeilan]

I still remember when I first got my Yamaha 621F. It was in Yamaha's very compact thin walled hardcase. Upon opening it up, there was a very distinctive smell, kind of like that "new car smell" but a little more obnoxious.
Honestly, I don't care what the case of the clones smell like. Just leave it open for a few days to air out if necessary, preferably outside if you have that option. When I had the very decent 186 clone, I sold the case; I had no personal need for a case that large that is still not flightworthy (IMHO.) I will most likely bag my next tuba shortly upon receiving it.
I never noticed any significant unusual odor with the tuba itself.

[Wyvern]

I already was under the impression you went into the tuba selling business to provide a service to tuba players, not to move to a large villa in Buckinghamshire next year. Because of their pricing I was wondering wether the musicstore F's maybe were b-stock, or they ordered them in very large quantities. I'm looking forward to see for myself what you have in stock this summer.

musicstore.de either get their stock very cheap one way or another, or make little profit. I would hardly make a profit selling at those prices, but would still rather match price than customer go there with tubas supplied getting the Chinese products a bad name.

No, I don't expect to get rich selling tubas, but hope to provide good service to tuba players (hopefully making new friends), provide work satisfaction for my Chinese wife, maybe eventually initiate new models that people want to market and make a modest supplementary income.

[MikeMason]

That sounds like an excellent plan!

[Ben]

Hi-
Please see threads:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=42339" target="_blank" target="_blank

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43744" target="_blank" target="_blank

FWIW, I have also owned a terrific gold brass Firebird 6v--a very fine horn. However, IMHO, the JinBao F- model 600 lacquer- wins not just on price, but also for a sound I prefer. Yes, the JinBao did have a couple of loose soldier joints and some slide alignment issues, but don't think for a moment that German horns don't have that at times (like selling horns with the ports not matching up with the tubes, BBb leadpipes on CC tubas, receivers jammed on leadpipes, pitch issues,piston issues--I once had a German 6/4 CC that had piston casings that looked like they used a car brake tool to 'hone' the casings!, etc.). And yes, the F in the staff is high--on the Firebird, it is not--for the JinBao, you can use 2-3 on it, but I now use a trigger (see above) for it and I accept that as a trade off for a sound I prefer with the JinBao. Also, my repairman corrected the problems -braces, slides, and now all is well. I do know that on some Asian horns, the caps on piston horns get to be noisy ( I had a lacquered JinBao comp. euph with this issue)--they need to be careful with the threads on their piston casings and improve that area. Also, every Asian horn has had the screw loose on the spit valve--a very simple fix, but they should be more careful. BTW, I have never found the metal on these horns to be thin--like Cervenys--but a bit thicker than on German horns. Finally, the Chinese must use the proper jig when assembling tubas, so as to make certain everything is aligned properly.

I used the JinBao F in April and this month on about 15 different brass quintet gigs--and you can do EVERYTHING on this horn--no problem, no sweat. As I have stated in the past, I think of the JinBao F not in terms of a Firebird, but--and don't laugh--in terms of "an Alex F with a low range...beautuful singing sound with the low range of a piston F." My 2 cents...

I have a silver 186 CC clone -model 410- and Bb 4 rotor tenor tuba -model 350-coming shortly (I hope!), and a Xuqiu micro 'mini-me' lacquer 4 rotor F also on its way. I have also owned an Eb lacquer comp. JinBao and a JinBao lacquer CC 186 clone, and both horns were SUPERB (NOTE: you WILL want to add a water key to the 5th valve slide on the 186 CC clone--someday you will be playing low and exposed, and water will gurgle [I know-I've been there!]--a water key should be added--either Amado or Saturn)--never any problems with chemical smells or the like. The 186 CC clone is truly a 'projecting machine'--it cuts through cleanly even with use in orchestra. I also owned a piston CC JinBao -4 piston, 1 rotor-tuba, model 450--and I would recommend that you stay away from that for the time being-IMHO, Either needs to be redesigned, or dropped and made differently. Many issues that just make it not a choice for 2011-agsain, IMHO.

Also, please note--I do not get paid for my past or current writings about what I have found on the Asian clones--but --if someone would like to send me on their nickel to China to give suggestions or to design some horns, I am available I just have seen that in our life, it seems that everything--even the new MacBook Pro I am using as I write this--is made in China, so I figured I would try these horns out to see if they played nicely, and have been VERY pleased with the price AND quality.

Anyways, the BEST WAY is to go play a Firebird, and then see somebody who has a JinBao F or go visit Al, Tom, Jonathan (U.K.), or Michael, and try the horn. Everyone has their own tastes--and the above is just my opinion(s)...good luck!

Regards-
mark

PS Never had an issue on gigs or over a period of time of having the Asian horns 'fall apart' or 'break down'--

bump

[MartyNeilan]

I think you get what you pay for...

I only wish...