Which F tuba is best to buy?

[biscuitsdonovan]

If he needs an f tuba to play these works, then maybe he should perform other works for the big horn first and play these later.

I'm not envious. I have an F tuba and this guy is not competition, unless it is at a biscuits eating contest.

He talks his parents into buying an f tuba and then changes his major, or can't pay tuition and has to drop out. You wouldn't have a guilty conscience supporting he get it?

He is asking a bunch of strangers this question. With the models he mentioned I guess he prefers rotary tubas. We don't know if he has a bright sound, dark sound, or his strengths and problems as a player. How can we suggest a horn? We can't. If he wants to play this repertoire, he should have a college professor teaching him and have that person help with the f tuba buying process, since they would know his playing better than us.

Bill Rose's son played a Miraphone and made all state you say Mark. Bill Rose was probably his son's teacher who was involved in the process of finding a tuba for him.

Missouri, I'm not going into a solo gig or want to do a solo job. I want to be a band director. And I have a dark sound and my basics are pretty solid I'm just asking what everybody else likes and I'll have to test some horns myself, I've tried the yamaha yfb 822, pt18, pt10p, pt15 is what I've tried. I love the pt18 sound.... and for the recored I prefer piston tubas.

[biscuitsdonovan]

And Missouri, Biscuits is my nickname because of a fast food place I worked at....

[Uncle Buck]

Early PT-10 tubas (not called "PT-10", but only called "Perantucci") were similar to the "Symphonie".

The only differences I could discern (between the early "Perantucci" and "Symphonie") are
- larger PT-10 mouthpipe
- larger bore 5th (rare for early Perantucci: 6th), 1st., and 2nd valves (as the "Symphonie" sported 5 bore sizes).
- a few early "Perantucci" tubas had interchangeable mouthpipes and 5th slides.

BOTH versions were 'hand-made" of sheet brass. I find the later instruments (fewer "hand-made" branches) to not be as resonant, and to not offer as "interesting" a color of sound.
I picked up (for resale) early "Perantucci" tubas in the past (for resale). Though the best of them sound slightly more "robust" than the best "Symphonie" F tubas, the sound (though yes, hand-made instruments) isn't as sophisticated. Mrs. bloke has heard the merits of both a fine "Symphonie" F and a fine (early/handmade) B&S "Perantucci" F. At one point, she actually encouraged me to keep (own) one of each. I (not Mrs. bloke) immediately rejected the idea as absurd. (Yes, they are different...and theoretically can be used in subtly different applications...but they're not different ENOUGH to actually keep/own one of each...

edit/insert: Roger Bobo's remarkable Tonight Show performances were played in a "Symphonie" model, so I don't think I need to go on any further about the beautiful singing quality of the hand-made B&S F tubas with five bore sizes and a small mouthpipe tube.

...Today, there are usable (unlike in the past: workable scale) "extra large" F tubas. I still don't see enough of a "difference" to own BOTH a "large" F tuba AND an "extra large" F tuba.

bloke "blah-blah-blah...too much information..."

So, for the college students out there looking at F tubas, this is an extremely valuable bit of information. With a little patience, these models come up for sale - often in surprisingly good condition - often enough.

[Tom Coffey]

The Yamaha 621 is very small, so it is light weight and easy to handle, even standing. It gets a bigger sound than would be expected, with a dependable (OK, an easy) low C and a surprisingly characteristic "F tuba" sound. I had one and loved it. They are for sale here every once in a while used, usually between $4,000 and $6,000. I used it for Carnival of Venice and similar fare, but it was fine for learning the standard orchestral excerpts. And, while some people would never use it in an orchestra, a lot of working pros use this model for at least some works. Personally, I liked it for the Berlioz pieces. I have seen decent examples for sale for as little as $3,800, though not often.
Another small F I owned was a Meinl Weston 182. It was a very small rotary horn. Like the Yamaha, it had a bigger sound than might be expected, and an easy low C. It had a beautiful, complex quality, but I always thought it was a little harder to play than the Yamaha. It is less expensive (new or used) than the big F tubas. It was very high quality, and fun to play.
There is a long-running debate about whether Yamahas are bland, in terms of sound quality, compared to other horns. I have a feeling it actually has more to do with the shape of a player's sinuses and oral cavity, concept of sound, and mouthpiece. I liked a Miraphone C4, or TU 23, for F Tubas. Any F Tuba is better than no F Tuba when learning the horn. The one thing I would insist on is getting five valves--it is the only tuba (imho) that actually requires five to do right. Good luck.

[biscuitsdonovan]

The Yamaha 621 is very small, so it is light weight and easy to handle, even standing. It gets a bigger sound than would be expected, with a dependable (OK, an easy) low C and a surprisingly characteristic "F tuba" sound. I had one and loved it. They are for sale here every once in a while used, usually between $4,000 and $6,000. I used it for Carnival of Venice and similar fare, but it was fine for learning the standard orchestral excerpts. And, while some people would never use it in an orchestra, a lot of working pros use this model for at least some works. Personally, I liked it for the Berlioz pieces. I have seen decent examples for sale for as little as $3,800, though not often.
Another small F I owned was a Meinl Weston 182. It was a very small rotary horn. Like the Yamaha, it had a bigger sound than might be expected, and an easy low C. It had a beautiful, complex quality, but I always thought it was a little harder to play than the Yamaha. It is less expensive (new or used) than the big F tubas. It was very high quality, and fun to play.
There is a long-running debate about whether Yamahas are bland, in terms of sound quality, compared to other horns. I have a feeling it actually has more to do with the shape of a player's sinuses and oral cavity, concept of sound, and mouthpiece. I liked a Miraphone C4, or TU 23, for F Tubas. Any F Tuba is better than no F Tuba when learning the horn. The one thing I would insist on is getting five valves--it is the only tuba (imho) that actually requires five to do right. Good luck.

Very well said Bloke and Tim! Thanks

[Biggs]

Band directors really don't need an f tuba. They need a good BBb tuba, trombone, trumpet, horn, clarinet, flute, and saxophone.

An f tuba for a music educator is overkill.

You do realize that the band directors go home at night, yes? Contrary to what you may have thought, they don't live in the band room but occasionally venture outside to do things that aren't teaching 8th-grade sectionals, arranging stand tunes for the football games, or organizing chair auditions. And what they do on their own time hardly seems like anyone's business beyond their own. But if they spent their own time advancing their own playing and performing their instrument in situations that aren't demonstrations of proper articulation for sophomore trumpeters, I wouldn't be shocked.

He's not asking if he needs an F tuba. He wants advice on F tuba models, not a lecture on how you, a non-band-directing doofus, think band directors should spend their time.

[Tubaryan12]

"Missouri"

Change the accent and that's what he brings.

[Biggs]

Band directors really don't need an f tuba. They need a good BBb tuba, trombone, trumpet, horn, clarinet, flute, and saxophone.

An f tuba for a music educator is overkill.

You do realize that the band directors go home at night, yes? Contrary to what you may have thought, they don't live in the band room but occasionally venture outside to do things that aren't teaching 8th-grade sectionals, arranging stand tunes for the football games, or organizing chair auditions. And what they do on their own time hardly seems like anyone's business beyond their own. But if they spent their own time advancing their own playing and performing their instrument in situations that aren't demonstrations of proper articulation for sophomore trumpeters, I wouldn't be shocked.

He's not asking if he needs an F tuba. He wants advice on F tuba models, not a lecture on how you, a non-band-directing doofus, think band directors should spend their time.

He should learn the other instruments in school so he can teach them in school, you big doofus.

And how, exactly, would owning an F tuba prevent him from doing this?

[Michael Bush]

How about if we just answer the kid's question to whatever degree it has an answer (which IMHO would not lead to a thread of more than one page) and let him have the life and the tuba he wants?

[Biggs]

With the name of Biggs he can't be a small fellow.

Instead of playing challenging F tuba solo repertoire, it might do the young man good to spend all this extra time to study a secondary instrument, like clarinet. Call me a doofus, but when 2 people are applying for the non-existent jobs in music, one can play 2 tubas well, and the other can play one tuba and clarinet well, who is more likely to be hired, especially if they have a brass person already at the school?

Again, I fail to see why owning an F tuba would prevent him from taking methods classes, or even full-on private lessons on any other instrument(s) he wishes.

Hell, even a doofus like me accomplished this: I've played every key of tuba for money, and I still learned how to get around pretty well on marimba, trap set, timpani, and the rest of the battery. And I sure didn't have the kind of tuba-wherewithal that this young man has at age 18.


I would also postulate that "playing the tuba well" in the employment context that you mentioned means being able to play any and all keys of tuba, much as a saxophonist would be able to play any and all saxophones, an oboist could handle a cor anglais, or a percussionist would need to be ready to jump onto anything a composer demands.

[Biggs]

F tuba will require practice outside his main horn, correct.

We agree.

Using F tuba when he teaches, I highly doubt it.

We disagree.

Instead, he should invest his money in owning some of the common band instruments, in my opinion, so he can have them at easy access when having to teach the specific instrument.

We agree, although for different reasons.

He has no interests in performing professionally like you Biggs, so I even question his need for a CC tuba.

We agree. But we're talking about a tuba he wants. Not a tuba he needs.

I am willing to bet there are a few band directors on this forum who are successful educators and band directors who only played BBb (or CC) tubas while in school.

We agree.

If he is being pressured to own an F tuba to be a music educator, he should either use the school horn or transfer schools.

We disagree.

I might be the minority, but I do not think you need an F tuba or even a CC tuba to be a good educator.

We agree.

When you are playing along with the valved brass in your 6th grade band, playing a CC tuba will confuse the daylights out of them.

We disagree.

[ppalan]

With the name of Biggs he can't be a small fellow.

Meet Mr. Biggs of the duo Biggs and Barr
(and I sincerely apologize to the REAL "Biggs")

Missouri, your reasoning and logic are beyond astounding.

[Biggs]

Why would he use an F tuba while teaching, especially to younger students who need to hear what a contrabass tubas sounds like?

Anecdote: My band director (grades 7-12) didn't play the tuba. But he didn't have to. If he didn't like something that I was playing, he would pick up his saxophone, say "play it more like this..." and then play it, adding the articulation, dynamics, breaths, style, or whatever he found me to be lacking.

He, like all (surely all, yes?) music education majors, had taken methods classes on all the instruments so he was familiar with concepts like 2nd valves lowering pitch by a semitone, buzzing on the mouthpiece, lip slurs, etc.

Obviously, different band directors and school systems have different methods for so-called beginning band. My beginning band director (a trumpeter) could operate all the instruments as well as the 4th-6th graders needed him to. 4th-grade band consisted of like-instrument classes whereas he would point to a Bb, say "This is a Bb. This is how you play a Bb," and then toot a Bb out while demonstrating the fingering to us. Lather, rinse, and repeat for each note we needed to play that semester. With regard to the OP, he'll be taking methods classes for all the instruments. He'll learn how to finger a Bb on the clarinet and how to play a Bb better than someone who has never touched a clarinet before. IF he becomes a beginning band teacher and IF he is fortunate enough to have tubas in his beginning band, I'm sure his sound on any kind of tuba will be better than his students' sound on BBb or otherwise.

If he is in school, he should ask his professor about these horns instead of 2000 people who have never heard him play and have no clue what horn would benefit him based on his size, lung capacity, and other stuff. He is paying a teacher to teach him this stuff, so he should use him.

Yes, this is extremely true. But I see no harm in the TNFJ sharing their experience with whatever particular model of F tuba they play on.

[TubaZac2012]

This post is making me lose brain cells. Let the dude decide on his own. All he wanted to do is know what F tubas were good and not worth picking up. If he wants to blow tons of money on an F tuba, let him make that decision for himself, but just because he wants to be a band director, doesn't mean he can't have one.

Missouri, you make some decent points, but so does Biggs. In the end, you're getting off the entire topic of the original post. I think we know what you think, but it's obvious that he is going to do what he wants to do. Let him decide for himself, he knows what you think, because you've made that clear, from the beginning.

Matt, if you want an F, get one, but I'm here to tell you, just because you have an F, doesn't automatically make it easier, I know you wanna play the John Williams and the Szpentpali, but those aren't solos you just automatically start whenever you pick up an F tuba, it's a learning process. Those concertos are ones that high caliber players deal with, usually Junior or Senior level of college, or graduate school players.

My point in all of this is that even if you do get an F, doesn't mean you'll be able to play those pieces, because I know how you play, and frankly, you just aren't ready. You're a good player, but not anywhere near ready enough to play that caliber of literature. In the end, if you get an F, great, if not, great. It doesn't matter, because at UNA, you won't be using any of it for anything but tuba and euphonium ensemble and quartet. You know what F tubas are good, because I've already told you face-to-face, but in the end, don't rush into anything, and good luck, I'll see you in a couple weeks, and we'll see each other every day this Fall.

[Biggs]

If he wants to blow tons of money on an F tuba, let him make that decision for himself...

Let him decide for himself....

Ah.

You know what F tubas are good, because I've already told you face-to-face...

Oh.

[TubaZac2012]

Biggs, whenever I say I told him, is that I told him from my personal experiences what works, and what doesn't, because he's asked. Some F tubas aren't worth picking up, and I've played on some of those, not owned, but played. I was just letting him know.

[eupher61]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

I hereby nominate Missouri to play the part of Vizzini; the rest of us The Dread Pirate Roberts.

truly dizzying.

[k001k47]

PM me if you have one

[Biggs]

Biggs, whenever I say I told him, is that I told him from my personal experiences what works, and what doesn't, because he's asked. Some F tubas aren't worth picking up, and I've played on some of those, not owned, but played. I was just letting him know.

How is this different from every other knucklehead on here saying "I play the Make-Model F tuba and I like it because..."



You chide us for not letting him decide for himself (though his decision, judging from his initial call for advice, involves at least hearing the rants and raves of the TNFJ), and then, in the same breath, go on to tell him precisely how you think he should decide, right down to the specifics of which models you recommend.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Tom.Idzinsk]

I would never want to play the Szentpali concerto or the John Williams on CC even though it is possible. If you plan on doing these you should use an F tuba. The Yamaha's are good for starting out on F and they are reasonably priced.